Pretty self-explanatory. What would someone have to do to become a commercial pilot? Would an airline (like United) train someone who has only seen the inside of the plane from the coach compartment or do you need some piloting experience to apply?
I’ll take this as a “I want to be an airline pilot” commercial pilot.
It’s not easy to get on with the airlines (though it is picking up… though that’s a whole bunch of other threads)
First, you need a commercial pilot licence. Here in Canada, that’s about 250 hours of flying. (I’ll be using Canadian numbers, because it’s what I know. The US is usually quite similar, but YMMV)
That takes time. And there’s a couple different ways of doing it. You can get it entirely privately. That licence will probably run about $30-40,000, depending on where and how long you do it. You can also go through various colleges, some of which are subsidized by the government. Cost to you for a college program, about $10,000 for a 3 year program (yes, college/university is much, much cheaper here)
That’s of course, starting from 0 experience.
On top of that, you need a multi-engine rating, (~$10,000 I think. I don’t remember right now. I really should look it up as I’m doing that right now. Also takes anywhere from a week to a couple months, weather dependent)
You need an IFR rating. This allows you to “fly blind” (working only off the instruments in the aircraft, except for takeoff/touchdown) (Add at least another $10,000… Again, that’s one of the thing’s I’m doing, so I should know that)
So, now you’re equipped to get your first job. You’ve got 250 hours and want to fly… Good luck.
One option is working the ramp at a small operator for about a year, maybe more, maybe less (though it’s getting less as the market picks up) Basically, loading and unloading, fueling, dispatching. No flying. Eventually, when you’ve worked at the company long enough, they’ll eventually put you on one of their aircraft.
Another option is instructing. You get your instructor rating, and work at a flight school… (Again, I don’t remember costs at this point… and I have no intention of instructing)
So you work at your “first” (I’ve yet to know anyone who’s stayed at one job for that whole time, normally it’s 3-5 different jobs) job until you have about ~500 - 1000 hours.
Then you get a job as a first officer on something like a PC-12
And you stay with that company for a while, and they put you as captain. Now you build Pilot-in-Command hours.
So you fly there for another 1000 or more hours, and now you can apply for an airline job. No guarantee you’ll get it.
Realistically, before you can apply to an airline, you’ve been working as a pilot for 5-10 years.
That’s a really, really simplistic view of how to do it. It’s also missing a couple (somewhat minor) things.
If you’re serious about it, drop me an email, and I can answer your question as best I can.
I’m going through all this right now. I’m just finishing up my commercial licence at a flight college. I’ve written my instrument test, and just need to do my multi, IFR and commercial flight tests (I’ll have them done by the end of the summer, I hope. Provided the weather’s cooperative and I don’t get too caught up in hot-air-ballooning) I have lots of friends at all the lower levels of the industry (nobody’s got to the airline level yet, but it’s just a matter of time) so I’m pretty well versed in the theory… Can’t wait for some real experience.
No - as StIdes indicates, you’d need a fair amount of flying experience. How much tends to vary with the supply of and demand for pilots, but it would be unusual for an airline to hire a pilot who didn’t have 1000+ hours as pilot-in-command, including multi-engine time and a fair amount of IFR experience.
They have little trouble filling available slots with pilots that meet these criteria and thus have little reason to accept pilots with less.
UND (University of North Dakota) has an ab initio program that they developed with Northwest Airlines nearly twenty years ago for the purpose of taking someone off the street and getting them in the air quickly. When they created the program, Northwest was apparently desparate for pilots.
In about 14 months time, they can take pretty much anyone and have them in the right seat on a regional carrier, for a cost of $60,000 - 100,000. I don’t think the industry is quite so short on pilots today, but in the past, it was possible for students to enter a contracted relation with the airline to obtain a scholarship to cover some portion of the tuition costs with the understsanding that they’d be working for that line once they graduate, and the expense the airline put into their education was a consideration in their salary.
The requirements to get into an airline depend entirely on how desperately the airlines need pilots. At the moment, in this part of the world, there is a shortage of experienced pilots. This means that those trying to get into their first airline find the going tough, while those who are looking to change airlines for life style reasons have some options available to them
In Australia you will need about two thousand hours total flying time including 500 hours pilot in command time on multi-engine aircraft (this can be very difficult for some pilots who learn to fly through cadet schemes or who get a job as a First Officer early in their career,) a Commercial Pilot Licence with an Instrument Rating (cost to me, approx $50,000,) and normally need at least the theory passes for an Air Transport Pilot Licence.
Unfortunately, being an airline pilot isn’t what it once was. Salaries are being eroded and the airlines are becoming more efficient at rostering which means more work for the crews. There are still some airlines that treat their staff very well. However, there are also many who require you to pay for your training AND who’s conditions are lower as well. They can do this because there are so many people who love flying so much that they are willing to do it for less and less money.
As an example, I work for a company who’s airline division are hiring new staff on 80% of what the current staff get, and who require you to pay $15,000 training costs, and they bond you for three years (the $15,000 is half the training costs, if you leave early, you get to pay the other half.) In addition, annual salary increases are capped at less than 2% which is less than the increase in cost of living each year.
Having said all that, I love my job and would never do anything else.
How old are you?
What is your flying experience up til now?
We’re assuming you have some military or civilian experience in aviation.
I’m assuming he has none based on this:
But maybe that wasn’t referring specifically to himself.
Ab initio programs assume your experience with airplanes is limited to making paper airplanes in math class.
While the programs are successful at making technically competent, if inexperienced, pilots, it’s worth noting that the concept has come under some scrutiny in recent years as some of the terrorists of 9/11 had enrolled in a very inexpensive and short ($42,000 and 30 weeks) ab initio program in Florida.
I’m surprised no one has mentioned Embry Riddle (sp?) yet. Check out their website for more info. (I got my private pilot’s license in Sedona, AZ. Embry Riddle has a campus in Prescott, AZ, not too far away.)
J.
Is a stint as a military aviator a good way to prepare yourself for a career in commercial aviation? I would suspect that you could log more hours in a shorter period of time, and at considerably less personal expense.
It can be but that is hardly the easy route. Military pilots are highly trained officers that often have to sign up for 10 years of duty (after ROTC or a military academy)or so to get a slot. The positions are exteremely competive as well so it is very possible to sign up and never get to fly. They do get the best toys in the world to play with if you don’t mind the whole combat thing however.
I should point out a nitpick that can sometimes be important. There is a license called “Commerical Pilot” that is just a couple of notches above a Private Pilot license. It allows flight for hire but it will likely just be sight-seeing flights in a small plane or perhaps banner towing. It isn’t good for much. The licence that lets someone fly for the airlines is called an Air Transport Pilot license (ATP).
Also, pay is actually pretty low for all but the most experienced pilots.
Here’s a site that lists pilot salaries. It is appropriately called Will Fly For Food.
For example, let’s say you start out your career as a first officer in a Dash-8 for Island Air (that would be a GREAT job for a beginning commercial pilot, BTW. You’d probably do lots worse unless you already had 1500 hours and an ATP).
First officers in the DH-8 start at $22/hr, with a guarantee of 80 hours per month. That’s $1760/mo, or roughly $21,000 per year.
If, after 10 years with the company you make it to DH-8 Captain, you’ll get $62/hr, or $59,000 per year. During that 10 years, you’ll probably be paying every nickel of your excess salary to student loans and training. And the 80 hours of flight time you book will be accompanied by unpaid hours studying for certifications, keeping current on regs and procedures, doing paperwork, etc.
Along the way, if any medical condition comes up that would DQ you from flying, your career is over. If you can’t score high enough on the company’s tests, you might never make it out of the first officer’s seat and have your career stall out at a lofty $35,000 per year.
Mind you, if you turn out to be a stellar pilot, finish all your training at the top of your class, ace the type rating exams, and maintain a spotless incident record, you could find yourself one day with one of the plum jobs, such as flying overseas cargo for Fed Ex in a brand new A380. In which case you will earn as much as $250/hr, or about $230,000 per year including overseas flight pay. But going into aviation expecting to have that job is kind of like working at Wal-Mart with the expectation that one day you’ll be a regional manager. It might happen if you’re truly great at what you do, but in reality most people stall out somewhere on the way up the ladder.
The bottom line: Fly because you love to fly. Most of us who want to go into commercial aviation have an attitude like, “They PAY you to fly airplanes? Where do I sign???”
As a career stacked up against other careers, it’s not so hot. If you’re just looking for a good, stable career with a good chance to make some real money, there are many better choices.
Just a very slight nitpick for Sam Stone: FedEx canceled the A-380 order. We’re now getting 777s instead (and that makes me much happier!)
Another good site for Pilot Salaries is Airline Pilot Central.
Not any happier than me. I’m a Boeing employee. 
Ooh, I’ll bet that didn’t help Airbus at all.
As an aside, is the A380 turning out to be a flop? I see that UPS also cancelled its A380 order. Have you heard of any other airlines that are dropping their orders?
A significant number of airlines canceled contracts or declined options for additional A-380’s after the latest delays in delivery.
But they’ve ordered a larger quantity of 767’s and 777’s instead - meaning more pilots needed. ALL A380 freighter orders have now been cancelled, btw.
I understand most US majors typically require at least 1000 hours and a Commercial ticket of applicants lately, and get almost all of them from the commuters.
Well I think it’s safe to say that the freighter version of the A380 is a flop. With no orders on the books, I doubt if it will ever get fully developed.
Many international airlines are looking forward to the passenger version. Whether Airbus can sell enough to break even has yet to be seen.
And to clarify what ElvisL1ves said, most US majors require 1,000 hours of turbine PIC time (Pilot In Command of a turbine-powered airplane). For most people this means jets, but turboprops count as well. I also don’t know anyone who has gotten hired without the ATP (Airline Transport Pilot) ticket, which is a step above a Commercial ticket.
The makeup of the people getting hired can vary with the airline. For the longest time FedEx was about 75% military/25% civilian, but now the numbers are about even. UPS and Southwest are about the same, with a fairly even split. Continental and Airtran I’m not sure of, but I think Airtran used to lean civilian but has been hiring more military types recently.
The only traditional “legacy” major in the US that has been actively hiring is Continental. Delta has started accepting applications but hasn’t hired anyone off the street yet. American, United and Northwest still have furloughed pilots that they must recall before they can hire. And US Airways/America West has some serious issues to work out with seniority list integration before they can start hiring.
That is pretty crap conditions.
In our company first year Dash 8 FOs get between $48,500 and $58,900 ($40,000 - $48,000 US) depending on the base. Captains get between $82,000 and $92,400 ($67,000 - $75,000 US.) The time to go from FO to captain is about 1 to 2 years depending on your performance. There are various allowances on top of the basic salary.
It should be pointed out that you don’t need to be an “ace pilot” to get a good piloting job. Or at least, an ace pilot isn’t necessarily someone with excellent flying skills. Most pilots have average skills, enough to be able to pass checks. What is more important, is their ability to work in a crew environment. A captain is a manager first and a pilot second. They need to be able to get the most out of their team in both normal and abnormal situations. There can be a lot of emphasis amongst student pilots on how well they’re flying, how quickly they are achieving milestones, and how they compare to their fellow students. Ultimately though, none of that matters, as long as they have the personality that the airlines are looking for and can be trained to meet a standard.
I think in general, the US carriers felt the effects of 9/11 the most (for obvious reasons I guess.) As Pilot141 says, there are still US pilots wating to get called back to their old jobs. In other parts of the world, particularly Europe and some Asian countries, the industry is in much better shape.