Velocity's far-fetched plan for becoming an airline pilot....feedback appreciated

I’ve always wanted to be an airline pilot, flying Boeings or Airbuses. Problem is, I’m already 26 and have practically no flying experience.
So, I’ve written up a rather far-fetched plan, and any feedback would be much appreciated.

  1. The military route just isn’t practical. I’m not suited for that lifestyle and I’m already 26. The expensive, civilian path it’ll have to be.
  2. I have a full-time job that provides a few thousand extra dollars per year after making ends meet. Job security is high and I might be able to work it for decades even, if I wanted. So I could use it to support my flying ambitions.
  3. Right now, I live in Texas.
  4. I will take flying lessons on weekends, continuing to work my day job.
  5. After a year and a half, I might have a solo private pilot certification.
  6. After another year or two, I could have an instrument rating.
  7. Another 2-3 years and I might be qualified in jets. Again, this is all happening on weekends. I’d still be working my 40hrs/week job.
  8. Another long while and I might have a commercial rating.
  9. Another long, long while and I might have an airline transport pilot’s license.
  10. By this time I’d have quit my job and become a flight instructor.
  11. Then I could later on fly for charter companies.
  12. Then…airlines?

**
Total time: 9-14 years?
Total cost: $40,000 - $60,000?**
So…perhaps by age 40, I might fulfill my dream of being a first officer in the cockpit of a 787?
I’m sure some parts of this plan are probably unrealistic or impractical. Could someone knowledgeable about this stuff set me straight?

Major airlines generally hire out of the military or from regional airlines. I don’t remember the number of hours they require, but it’s a whole lot. There seems to be a lot more people who want to be pilots then spaces for them with the major US carriers (and UPS and Fedex). I have no idea about the rest of the world.

I don’t know if you’re serious about a 787, but pilots also start “at the bottom.” A 737 is much more likely.

I’m far from the most knowledgeable on this subject (although I have represented several airline pilots and have had to learn a bit about the industry). I also think people should follow their dreams as much as possible.

Seems like the the non-military path would be to get your license and apply with a regional carrier and work for very low pay for 5 to 10 years.

I mentioned 787 as a random airplane. Flying a 737 would be a dream come true just like flying a 787. And about as difficult/improbable too.

Are you aware of how much an average airline pilot makes?
It’s something to consider before you put so much time in effort into your dream of being a pilot.

After you get your instrument rating, get your instructor certificate and start giving lessons in your spare time. Even once you have all your ratings companies will be looking at total number of hours when considering whether to hire you or not. Flight instruction doesn’t pay much but it is the easiest way to build those hours, plus you keep getting lots of experience with emergency procedures, all the ground school stuff (that you learn for testing then forget), and best of all, a lot of experience in making good judgement calls about weather.

Also, invest in an AOPA membership if you have not already done so, and make good use of all their resources, including tons of information about flight training. You may be able to get some loans to finish much faster, and it really does help if you don’t go weekdays before flights.

I’m not exactly an expert on this, but let me give you a different plan: jump into it with both feet, rather than taking more than a decade.

A good friend of mine decided he wanted to be an airline pilot at roughly age 24 or so. He went to Embry Riddle Aeronautical University, paid a ton of money through student loans and whatnot, got all his tickets in a relatively short order. He then became a flight instructor to get his hours up to the point that a regional airline would hire him – that’s pretty much missing from your plan.

As a CFII, he was making not a lot of money but it was enough to live on until a job offer came through. Then… he was basically making minimum wage for a couple years. After that, he got hired by a major airline and has been flying for them for quite a few years now.

(erased comment about needing to be a CFI – misread the OP)

But I will add that counting on paying out of pocket every weekend for several years for all your flight hours is risking the sort of Chinese water torture on your budget. Your plan means that you have to fully commit to flying each weekend for several years before becoming a CFI – I would be skeptical if that is a realistic, sustainable goal, both in terms of time and money.

Frankly? If you really wanted it badly enough to accomplish it, you’d already be finding a way to do it.

A flying career is really only for somebody who can’t live without flying, and even so those who get one need a second source of income anyway. There aren’t enough jobs in the field to support all of those who simply need to do it, aviation employers know it, and pay and working conditions reflect that. The glamor days are long past.

Another option for racking up hours is to fly for a local skydiving club. You won’t get paid much but you’ll do lots of take-offs and landings. Depending on where you live, there is probably a skydiving center within an hour’s drive (especially in the eastern half of the US).

If you aren’t suited for the military lifestyle, especially if it’s the discipline or travel part, it’s unlikely that you’ll make it as an airline pilot.

That doesn’t mean that you MUST be in the military first. However the pilots that I’ve met who weren’t in the military probably would have fitted right in had they chosen that route.

For the practical advice, I suggest you google a forum called Prrune. Has all the dreary details about driving a heavy, world wide, and the meager pittance you will recieve for this.

Declan

You might take a look at helicopters - takes longer, costs more, but there is a big shortage of pilots so it does not take nearly as long to make it up the ladder as it used to. My husband did this as a second career (starting at age 35) as a civilian - highly unusual in the US - and right now the best and fastest route to a career in aviation seems to be get your commercial and teaching certificates, at 1000 PIC go to the gulf to fly to and from the oil rigs for another 1000 hours, then look at EMS, corporate, utility, or get some long-line experience and start fire fighting.

I’d really like to have $10 for every CFI (20-25) who was convinced he/she would have a fistfull of turbofan throttles in his/her fist “pretty soon”.

With 5000 hours, a regional may look at you - that First Officer on that regional turboprop who was too busy flirting with the PIC and flew into a mountain?

She was making so much money she was living with her parents - on the west coast - while flying in the Northeast. One hell of a commute.

If you do decide to take flight training for your own amusement (realistically, you have less than 4 years to get at least 3000 hours - sorry), find one who is a Flight Instructor, not somebody who puts up with students because they pay for the plane. Min. age is 25, and must be well though of all around the airport. Hire the instructor you chose, not the one the FBO “recommends” out of the slobs sitting around hoping to get the next walk-in. Those are the ATP-wannabes who ARE NEVER going to get left seat in anything larger than a heavy twin.

The usual:
Private Pilot - Land
Instrument Rating
CFI
CFII
Muti-engine
CFII - multiple engine (this is where you find a dirt cheap, crapped ot Aztec and make big money teaching multi-engine. Until that crapped-out Aztec does what every crapped out Aztec does - just hope it has enough altitude that you can glide to a survivable contact with earth.
ATP (then you keep doing the CFI/CFII to “keep current” and build hours until the phone rings. It never does.

I knew one VERY sharp instructor who got a call from a regional - she was the best young (mid-20’s) instructor I met.

The CFI’s who think they’re hot shit go nowhere, and eventually, not even the crummiest FBO will list them or allow their business cads on the bulletin board.

Sorry - unless you have an incredible knock for not only flying but attending to the detail trivia (pre-flight, checking logs to ensure the plane is legal to fly - a dozen such bits which are at least as important as stick-and-rudder. Aviation is strictly regulated, and you had better have the right mindset to survive.
For instance: do not flirt with your partner, especially in mountains.

The good news is that it’s not too late for a career in flying. I personally knew a woman who didn’t start flying until 40 or 45 and nonetheless enjoyed a 50+ year long career in aviation.

The bad news? That’s the exception, not the rule, and she never did work for the airlines (she told me once that when she was young enough to fly for the airlines they refused to hire women. By the time that was no longer legal she was past their mandatory retirement age).

I’ve known a few other folks who got into flying “late” and also enjoyed careers as a pilot. It CAN be done. It will be a lot of work and I hope you like ramen noodles for dinner on a regular basis.

If you don’t have at least $10k a year to spend on flying it won’t happen. Seriously. Flying costs money, no money no flying. As a very casual private pilot I was easily spending $5k or more a year on the hobby, you’ll need at least twice that, probably more, in the way of funds. While loans and other financing may be available keep in mind loans must be repaid and entry level work in the business pays low wages.

You’ll need more than just “a few thousand”. How much can you pare down your budget?

Consider occasional evening/very early morning lessons during the week as well. Weekends only will draw out the learning time and potentially increase time and costs.

IF you apply yourself and become extremely dedicated, and nothing gets in the way (such as in my case, where my first solo was delayed due to needing to get a Statement of Demonstrated Ability) you should be able to do this in 6 months, not a year and a half, especially living in Texas where you won’t have to battle the weather as much as in the Midwest where I live. In any case, taking 1.5 years to get just your private is taking too long for your ambitions.

Your timeline is too lengthy. Now, it is reasonable to build in some “padding” to a schedule because there will be delays from time to time - storms, mechanical issues, etc. But if you can’t absorb the information and skills faster you’ll never make it to the airlines.

If you want to do this you’ll have to make flying your other job - 40 hours or more per week. That’s not necessarily 40 hours of flying. There’s a LOT of book work and on-the-ground work in any aviation. Even as a hobby I was putting in at least 20 a week.

Cost will be more like $100,000.

You don’t HAVE to be a CFI. I know a (now former) airline pilot who found other means of employment to get the necessary hours, skill, and experience but it’s a much harder road to do it that way.

^ This.

This is an option but it costs a LOT more. Helicopters are at least 3 times the cost of fixed wing from what my rotor-head friends tell me.

You might want to start out by earning your private license, then review your dreams. You need to first know if this is really for you or not and whether or not you have the aptitude for it. Getting to know pilots and doing some actual flying will teach you more about the business than any message board. You might still go for the long-shot airline career but there are a lot of other ways to fly for a living as well you should at least look at. You might find you prefer one of them after you get some experience under your belt.

I don’t have first hand experience of the industry in the USA so the following is advice that I’d give to someone in your position starting out in Australia. It should be generally applicable anywhere though.

First of all you need to be clear on the minimum required to get you qualified. My goal, if I was you, would be to aim for the following progression, you can modify it along the way if it doesn’t work out.

  1. Private licence

  2. Commercial licence

  3. General aviation flying job (not instructing)

  4. Instrument rating / multi engine rating

  5. 1500 hours / Air transport licence.

  6. First officer turbo prop.

  7. Entry level position with major airline.

  8. At this point you’ve made it and just need to follow the career progression for the company you are in.

  9. Private licence. Obviously the bare minimum to fly an aeroplane yourself with passengers. A worthy enough goal in itself and it’s quite possible you’ll get this far and be satisfied with a lifestyle of working a “normal” job and doing some flying in your spare time.

  10. Commercial licence. This is the very next thing you do and is necessary so you can be paid to fly. Between step one and step two you will need to do probably around 100 hours of flying just building hours. Check the rules in the US, but you may be able be able to do parachute flying and glider towing on just a private licence.

  11. A job but not instructing.

Why no instructing? Because I believe you should only instruct if you really want to do it. If you are instructing just to build your hours then you are doing yourself and your prospective students a disservice. Also in my opinion instructing is not the best way to develop your commercial decision making skills (weather avoidance, diversions, go / no go etc). If you want to instruct, then by all means do it, but try and find a flying school that does some charter work as well so you can get a broader range of experience.

The ideal first job is with a company that has some breadth to their services. A charter company that fly single and twin engine aircraft for example. The more progression you can get without changing jobs the better.

Note that getting a flying job has come close to the top of my list while you have it near the end of yours. This is where you are going to have to make some real sacrifices. You need to get a flying job as soon as you can. You will not get paid enough for it and you will probably have to work a second job (maybe your current employer can put you on part time) but the sooner you start flying for work the better.

  1. Instrument rating / multi engine. This is something you should aim to do once you have your first flying job. You are living and breathing flying at this point which will make the rating less of a challenge. This could be the last flying you ever pay for. I’ve lumped the IR and MER together because they tend to go together. Single engine flying is typically not IFR but multi engine flying is. If you find you need an instrument rating for a single engine job than do a multi engine instrument rating anyway, it saves having to go back and do it again.

  2. 1500 hours / ATPL. The FAA recently introduced a regulation that requires US airline first officers to have an ATPL. To have an ATPL you need a minimum of 1500 hours. So the goal now is to get those hours so you can get the licence.

  3. First officer turbo prop. It is possible to skip this step but unlikely, so assume you have to do it. This will most likely be for a regional airline and the pay and conditions will probably be appalling.

  4. Entry level position with major airline. If you want to fly big jets then you need to fly for a major international airline. I don’t know how it works with airlines in the US, but in the airlines I’m vaguely familiar with, the entry level position is as a 2nd officer (“SO” also known as a cruise FO) on a big jet. So if you join Qantas for example, you’ll fly a B747 as your first type. Except you won’t fly it, you’ll monitor the flight path at 35000’ while your captain has gone back for a nap. You won’t land or take-off except in the simulator, you could be doing this for a loooong time (a friend of mine has been an SO with Qantas for 10 years.)

  5. From here you do whatever everyone else does in your company. From B747 SO you might go to being an FO on a B737 then an FO back on the B747 then maybe a captain on the B737.

I haven’t mentioned the theory side of things. You’d have to do that concurrently with everything else.

Don’t pay as you go. If you can spare a few thousand a year then see how much of a loan that can get you. If you can do your flying training in big chunks you will find it easier and there will be less revision which means you are more likely to gain your qualifications in the minimum flying time which means minimum dollars spent.

Be prepared to change the plan. Aim high but don’t get bitter if the best you can do is somewhat lower or if takes longer than expected. I hate to say it, because it is the mindset that has driven conditions down in the industry, but any flying job is better than no flying job. Everything I said about instructing? Well if instructing is all you can get, then do it!

Don’t be disheartened by the stories of people who haven’t made it. At every step in the aviation career path there are people who have gone as far as they think they can. This means that there will always be stories of failure and how the industry sucks. What you don’t hear so much of is the stories of success, that’s because the successful aviators have moved on already and aren’t around to tell you about it. The success you DO see will be disheartening as well because it will be your peers getting jobs before you do. Don’t worry about that, it just means it’s your turn next.

Be prepared to move. There’s a big wide world of aviation out there. If you’re prepared to move you can make the most of it. Places like South Africa are a popular for new pilots to build hours. If you can get out of the US in the long term then you will probably find aviation more rewarding. Better conditions, better pay, lower requirements etc. As your final goal you might look at companies like Emirates, Qatar, and Cathay.

Work out why you want to be an airline pilot. Find out what it is actually like to be one. Compare. Will achieving the assumed goal (being an airline pilot) satisfy the actual goal (why you want to be one.) For me, flying is definitely a job. It’s the best job for me and I’d rather do this than anything else, but I am not excited to go to work each day. There is generally something I’d rather be doing around the house than flying 100 miners to the gas fields. The best flying job I had, for the flying itself, was 20 years ago. Now it’s just a way to fund my non-work activities.

The most challenging time will probably be getting your first job. The problem you will have is that you can’t get a job without experience and you can’t get experience without a job.

With that in mind, don’t just show up to your flying school, have your lesson, then leave. Turn up in the morning and spend the whole day there. Chat to people, help out, hang around with the engineers, visit the control tower if you can. If you’d rather be doing something else, then flying is not for you. Gentle networking is key to getting work.

Here’s a perspective on it all from a US poster. I believe things have picked up for her since she posted this. http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12137265&postcount=10

I disagree on not taking out a loan. If you don’t get a loan you can’t get it happening quickly enough.

I learned to fly when I was 30, became a CFI, and I now fly a turboprop at a regional. PM if you’d like.