It’s strange that some people don’t consider oral sex “penetration” - and therefore don’t consider it sex. How do you decide which orifices qualify as penetration?
Please believe me, I am not a virgin. Even if you leave out the one time I was “penetrated.”
Little cultural note, might be of interest:
Lesbians who have never had sex with a man are called “Gold-Star Lesbians.” At least in California. I would consider a woman a Gold-Star Lesbian only if she’d never had oral, vaginal, or anal sex with a man. Not sure how other lesbians would define it.
People don’t view oral as penetration because usually the giver is the most active partner I think. Same way het sex with woman on top is usually described as her riding the guy, the language makes her the active one.
I have a really good imagination.
I just go with the stock definition: penis in vagina. No caveats, no technicalities (ok, I’ll exclude your initial passage through the birth canal). If an action doesn’t de-virginize you as a hetro couple, it doesn’t magically count in any other context either.
It’s funny how many people say that the definition is unimportant or people are too hung up on it until they’re excluded/included from the definition when they didn’t want to be. Then it’s suddenly a Big Deal and time to redefine the word until they like the results.
Hang on tight to that, Jophiel!
It means whatever you want it to mean. Virginity is not some concrete physical state, it’s a fanciful concept. I would say if you are in physical contact with another person and either or both of you reaches orgasm, it’s sex. Actually any contact with another persons genitals intended to stimulate them sexually should count.
Makes sense for me for straight relationships, but did you miss that this thread is about homosexual sex?
Anyway, I’m with san vito on this - most people I know just agree that there is no standard for losing your gay virginity, except that it probably involves the genitals in some direct way.
Exactly. There’s no standard because there’s no actual definition for it. I’m with SanVito as well…
…it only matters if you’re hung up on letting it matter or meeting some standard. Why not just say you’ll always technically be a virgin and live happy rather than worry about redefining the word to fit some standard you want to meet?
(“You” in the general, of course)
Well in that case I’m still a virgin. The thousands of guys I’ve had sex with are gonna be a little confused by this news.
(Of course my real answer is: Who the fuck are you to define what I am?)
To us Scandis, the common American idea of a person having copious oral sex without PIV penetration being a virgin is really baffling. Is it not full-blown sex to have *another person’s penis or vulva in your mouth *? It’s way more intimate than PIV sex. A surprisingly large number of people who enjoy PIV sex can’t stomach (heh) the idea of sucking another person’s member.
I have stated that oral could be or not, and leave it up to the couple (or multiple people) to decide if that event ended virginity. I leave it open because oral is commonly used as a alternative to penetrative sex and would be IMHO masterbation when used in that way.
There isn’t usually any penetration involved in oral sex between women.
Me? I’m no one special so you probably shouldn’t get that worked up that I’m using the technical definition of the word. If you want to say that you are or are not a virgin, I’m sure it won’t impact me at all.
Could you cite where you are getting this ‘technical definition.’ It sure looks to me like you were asserting what the definition of virgin should be for other people.
I’ve yet to see a dictionary that specifies penis in vagina is a ‘technical’ aspect of losing ones virginity.
In most dictionaries the definition is: A person who has not experienced sexual intercourse.
If you look up the definition in those same dictionaries sexual intercourse none of them are limited to penis in vagina.
You might have noticed this subject is in ‘humble opinion’ because it seems to be a matter of opinion what constitutes losing ones virginity.
Penis in vagina is a very widely-used definition of losing your virginity. I’m just not sure what relevance it has to this thread.
Define penetration. (I’m back to breaking hymens with my tongue.)
You are a person who is defining a word as she wishes and saying that that’s the definition and no one should argue about it and if they do then they have a problem in themselves. I am so glad I don’t know you.
I think that, in terms of “events,” for gays and lesbians, simply the act of doing anything overtly sexual with someone of the same sex is enough of its own taboo to qualify as a significant mark in ones life. I remember with great clarity and significance “the first time,” which of course did not involve anal. (Kids, I refer you to Dan Savage who calls anal sex “varsity level.” One really should NOT be ‘losing their virginity’ with anal sex.)
Anyway, I have no recollection of the first time for anal sex. Compared to confronting the whole “having sex with a man” thing, it was really not that important.
I assume this perspective may be short lived as the significance of confronting the whole ‘having sex with a man’ diminishes, but for now, I think it is way more important to gay men than ‘losing ones virginity.’ I speak without experience, but I think for many “sex with a man” still holds significance even to those who first had full-on sex with a woman. And by sex, I mean anything overtly sexual with another man. It really is a milestone for many of us (I think). In a sense, one can lose their virginity with a woman, then lose their gay virginity later.
Flip that all around for lesbians, but I can’t speak for them.
I don’t think I would consider someone who had received manual stimulation from another person to have “lost their virginity,” because there’s no penetration involved whatsoever. Perhaps I’m being pedantic, though.