The theist: the belief that you have to jump through some specific set of hoops to please some god and get an optimal afterlife.
The atheist: that there is no such god (and therefore, no such set of god-pleasing hoops).
Resulting actions based on beliefs:
Theist jumps through the hoops, or at least tries to.
Atheist makes no effort to jump through such hoops.
Or at least that’s what I’ve seen.
I guess my take is that if there is a god and they’re benevolent, it shouldnt really matter to them whether I believe or not.
Expecting me to believe in them ‘just in case’ just seems fundamentally silly as a godly requirement and ultimately ‘do unto others’ works as a general principle whether one is religious or not anyhow.
As pointed out the alternative is to play the lottery.
Otara
When bad things happen you don’t waste time wondering why God is angry. And you don’t expect God to solve the problem.
10% more money in my pocket. Assuming, of course, the god I choose to disbelieve in asks believers to tithe.
I’m not going to bother responding, since it’s all been said before, but maybe we could put up a sticky saying “believers - if you are going to post Pascal’s wager, don’t bother.”?
Or maybe, like the old story about prisoners telling jokes, we should number the responses. That way the thread would look like:
#3.
Ooh, a good one.
Since we don’t want to overload the database, perhaps a good idea.
This might work better if everyone knew this particular argument is “Pascal’s wager”. It genuinely appears that the OP devised it on his own, and he even apologised in advanced in the case that it was old news.
If an all-powerful being does exist and has such a fragile ego that he cares whether I believe in him enough to make that the sole criteria for allowing me into his happyland, well I’m not sure that I’d want to spend eternity with such a creature.
Honesty.
Lack of dissonance.
Ability to see our better and worser natures for what they are.
The ability to be “spiritual” (not a non-corporeal spirituality) without falling into dogma.
Less of a knee jerk reaction to science.
Keeping your tithe.
Finding NEW social outlets.
The ability to see morality for what it is - not an absolute, but a soft, ever present pressure to keep society working.
There are many advantages.
Let me ask you this, and I’m wagering that you are approaching from a Judeo-Christian standpoint…
God loves all of us.
Wants all of us to fellowship with Him.
God made sure we were told how He wanted us to be and how he created the world/cosmos.
The earth tells a tale of a long, long history of development - as does the universe.
So… either God is tricking us, doesn’t want ALL of us, His Earth lies, or his book lies.
In any eventuality… it’s a God I can’t worship or follow. For the record I capitalized to be sensitive to sensibilities… I have no belief in god and am not an angry atheist - I think most will see I’m rather the opposite.
I suggest going to Brights movement - Wikipedia.
Or to their wesite www.the-brights.net
As far as blinking out of existence, I always ask believers the same thing:
What exactly made you so conceited to think that YOU get the chance at paradise? Is it because you prayed for a field goal, got it, and felt god answers
YOUR prayers?
In general I think it is too self-aggrandizing to expect paradise.
I only give out one birthday card. It reads:
Happy Proof That Your Parents Had Sex Day!
Well, that’s why you’re here…
In case no one has noticed, the dead only live with the living.
You may remember your neighbor, but you don’t remember the people
who died in, say, 432 A.D.
A happy reasoning to all.
Actually, our atheistic view needs a voice we can all bargain with:
George Carlin.
Please look up George Carlin religion on YouTube and watch the routine.
George has now claimed that he WAS a catholic (like me) until he reached
the age of reason.
He describes the belief of an invisible man in the sky who created you,
has a list of rules, if you break the rules, you burn and choke in hell forever, and ever…
But he loves you! He really loves you, and he always needs money!
That’s the straightest dope on Religion.
Watch it, you’ll at least enjoy it if you don’t buy it.
So, Grasshopper. Have you found the knowledge that you seek?
If your belief in God is based on proof, or logical argument, it isn’t faith, it’s just a belief.
Logically it is not reasonable to base a faith in God on logic.
Reason and logic are very useful tools.
But if your wife asks you if you love her, you don’t ask her for a definition of love, or evidence that it has any real existence. If she wants proof, she wants something that cannot be given. Either she has faith in your love, or she doesn’t. Every other answer becomes an iterative test sequence that can only end with destruction of the thing for which we are testing. Faith in God is like that. If you keep looking for proof, you cannot have faith.
Tris
Fair enough.
If I send you a picture of my wife, could you send me a picture of God?
You believe whatever makes you the most comfortable. Many people struggle with understanding how people can believe different from themselves. While it is impossible to be a person whose beliefs, or lack thereof, don’t offend someone, you have to choose whichever makes sense to you.
I can respect people of any belief, or lack thereof. What I can’t respect are the people who have to try to “fix” those who differ from themselves, or those who obssess over the flaws of the outsiders. Every group has 'em. Find your own answers and simply believe or don’t. Atheists and believers have equal potential for happiness, because it isn’t about what you believe, but how comfortable you are with your self and your own conclusions.
ETA: If you ever find yourself trying to recruit people, you’ve done something wrong.
If it was based on proof and logic it wouldn’t be belief, it would be knowledge.
My wife at least knows I exist.
Or, you could just break from the whole ‘imitating god’ deal and tell your wife you love her when she asks, like any sane person would.
Your entire post is based on the premise that faith (as in, blind, stupid, flies in the face of evidence, ‘I beat my wife and she still thinks I love her’ faith) is a good thing. In reality, only religions, con artists, and those fooled by these sorts think this is the case.
To bastardize a phrase… Love without deeds is dead, being alone.
The Dark Gods of my people would punish me and my offspring for 10 generations if I chose my deities by weighing the odds.
Short hijack and apologies if I offend anyone. I really do think that cons are best aimed at three demographics: the young, the old, and those who go to church. Please keep in mind that young and old isn’t a number on a calendar… it’s a mindset. Those three groups tend to be the most trusting…
Slightly off topic, but I read an SF story years ago (I can’t remember the name or the author, and my google-fu failed me in this endeavor) in which some of the characters belonged to the Religion of the Month Club. Each month they’d get a packet of info on how to practice a new religion. The sales pitch for the service was of the cover-your-ass variety.