I’m not as sold on the idea the lawyers* for Sandpiper plaintiffs are being unethical as others seem to be And the potential issue is the clients’ age. Aside from that of course each plaintiff in a big class action gets fewer extra absolute 's when the settlement is raised than the lawyers do, but the same % increase. And while I have a skeptical view of the US tort system as it now exists, there really couldn't be a real world system where the law firm representing many plaintiffs got fewer absolute 's than any single plaintiff.
Anyway back to the longevity or time value of money issue, because that one is more legit than ‘the lawyers get more $‘s from a settlement increase’, Irene is still of sound mind basically as far as we can tell. And we haven’t seen that the lady from Davis and Main who is communicating with her (whose name was mentioned, Jimmy knew or pretended to know her) has manipulated Irene unethically…which we know Jimmy has now done, big time. A lot of older people I know have high confidence in their remaining longevity to a very advanced age. On forums about retirement/investing you run into a lot of people like that. ‘My family has good genes, I have to save enough to live to at least 115’. They are dead serious. They are also mistaken IMO as to the real likelihood: your longevity doesn’t correlate that closely with parents’, a parent living to 115 would make it relatively somewhat more likely you would, but still a quite low absolute probability assuming no mega breakthrough in medicine. But it’s within the realm IMO of a person’s right to believe what they want to.
And this is Irene’s decision alone at least as presented to us in the show, which seems silly but is not the lawyers’ fault.
Re: Pantastic, that’s a reasonable point the Jimmy/Howard scene could be a demonstration of how nuanced the characters are, that Howard defies Jimmy’s sometimes intuitive ability to read people and he completely misreads Howard. But ‘hard to believe’ was still my gut reaction to the scene.
I think people are being a bit rough on Howard. For all we know Howard is holding on since he knows that Sandpiper will offer a higher settlement soon, maybe a few months. We cannot say.
His outburts against Jimmy was based on two things.
i) He has just about had it with the McGill brothers and their issues
and
ii) He is insulted at Jimmy’s transparent ploy. He is saying essentially "Dude, I am not Chuck that you can manipulate me so easily and also unlike Chuck I am not going to screw you out of your money.
Since I don’t think I’ve actually said it, I think that Jimmy’s claim that the Sandpiper plaintiff lawyers are being unethical or immoral or otherwise not looking out for their client’s interests is pure self-serving bullshit. “They’re old, they’re going to die soon, so they should take the settlement now” doesn’t really hold up to scrutiny, it’s just vaguely plausible and suit’s Jimmy’s selfish desire to get money now. A large number of them are healthy and will be alive for years, so waiting comfortably for anther couple of years to get money makes perfect sense. Others aren’t going to use the money for themselves, they will just leave it to their kids when they eventually die, so for them waiting for the payout also makes sense. It’s only the few who are actually in condition where they’re likely to die before the payout and will use the money themselves who Jimmy’s argument really applies to.
We can easily tell that Jimmy knows is argument is actually a load of crap because he doesn’t make it to the people he’s trying to convince. If it was really in their best interests, he could just go full Perry Mason suit and convince them, but he avoids that. Instead he makes up blatant lies (like convincing the mall walkers that Irene bought her shoes), engages in misdirection (he knows Irene isn’t trying to screw anyone but boy does he get people to believe it) and otherwise avoids what should be the simple task of reminding people that they’re getting screwed.
I mean, if I had the choice between a $13,600 settlement now and a $16,000 settlement if I just waited another year or two for a lawsuit to finish, I’d take the bigger settlement in a heartbeat.
I think what makes it hard for you to buy the scene is that you figure Jimmy has your insight into Howard’s character, so to you he’s making a dumb move that you don’t think he would. I believe the scene because I don’t see it as Jimmy making a dumb move, but as Jimmy badly misreading Howard, who he doesn’t really know as well as he thinks he does. I think one thing we’re likely to see as Saul develops is that Jimmy trying cons on people who aren’t easy marks isn’t going to work as well as his bar schemes in Cicero.
I think there’s one more: iii) He has had to be the nice face of HHM for weeks while doing damage control, and for months while trying to steer Chuck away from disaster (and he’s still got kid gloves on for Chuck). But Jimmy is someone he considers a bad guy (unlike Kim, who he still respects) that he doesn’t need to wear the nice face for AT ALL. Part of him going off is just that Jimmy is someone that he can go off on who he doesn’t actually like, and he’s getting a chance to blow off weeks stress that he can’t vent to anyone.
It’s worth remembering that a higher settlement amount will have more of a deterrent effect on any future would-be Sandpipers. So that’s another ethical dimension to the situation.
I see where you’re coming from, though I think the word “attack” here is a little harsh. Manipulated, certainly. Took advantage of, absolutely. But he did not attack her. In any event, no one makes particularly memorable Moviefilms about ordinary schmucks like you and I. If Walter White had lived in Canada, his Doctor would have said, “You have inoperable lung cancer. We’ll start radiation treatments Monday morning. Don’t worry, it’s all covered by your provincial health plan. Have a nice weekend.”
Mike does not seem like someone offering a “too good to be true” opportunity- laundering all his money with him getting 100% - no “service fee” and Gus is actually tossing in considerable money (covering taxes and FICA). He needs to be convinced that Lydia know what she is doing. Signing the employment papers makes him guilty of money laundering.
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Jimmy can’t tell Irene that the settlement is really good and she can accept it. That would be giving legal advice and he would be in violation of his suspension and disbarred. Maybe even put his of-counsel fee at risk.
Not saying he couldn’t have found another less asinine way to influence Irene, but straight up advising her to accept the settlement is not an option.
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Common misconception (and it makes a funny meme every time I see it shared), but lack of insurance wasn’t why Walt started his meth business. He had his teacher’s union insurance, and was offered additional healthcare money by his Gray Matter ex-colleagues.
I don’t think his teacher’s union insurance would have gone very far, and he didn’t want to leave his family destitute using up all the family savings to pay for his treatment. In fact, he didn’t even want them to know he was sick. His pride, or my new favorite word, “hubris,” prevented him from taking the Gray Matter money, so he chose to become a self-made man. There’s a similarity to Saul, in that Jimmy doesn’t want to take handouts from Kim. By the looks of the most recent episode, Kim bailing him out won’t be an option anyway.
I’d take the $13,600 in a heartbeat. No question about it. I bet that a simple present value calculation would bear me out. Not to mention anything could happen in a year or two like Sindpiper going bankrupt or god knows what else. But this is a matter of opinion. There is no correct answer.
Exactly. It’s not $13,600 now VS $16,00 in a year or two. It’s for sure $13,600 now VS maybe more in a year or two (and remember the residents just get a few cents each for each additional dollar) , also possibly “Old offer’s off the table. Here’s our new lower offer. Take it, or we’ll see you in court.” or even “Old offer’s off the table. We’ll see you in court.”
Yeah, it’s meme that must have been written by someone who didn’t pay attention to Breaking Bad. Walt started cooking meth when his cancer was diagnosed as untreatable, then when the better doctor found a treatment that wasn’t covered (which can happen in UHC systems too) he had an offer of a legitimate job that would cover it and his old friends offered to just pay for treatment. He CHOSE not to take either of those options because cooking meth made him feel more powerful, not because he had to. And then after a while of cooking meth, he made more than enough money to pay for all of his treatments and leave a bunch for his family, but still kept on, long past the point where he even knew how to launder his piles and piles of money. Walt cooked meth because of ego, it wasn’t because of insurance issues.
The residents are each looking at thousands more from waiting, while they don’t get as much individually as the law firms that’s the rough figure for their size. Jimmy’s example with the peanuts actually shows the value of waiting; in his example they each got 33% more, so if they started with $13,600 (my estimate from the numbers on the show) they’d actually bump up to $18,000. The fact that 33% more for the lawyers doesn’t change that 33% more for the residents is still a chunk of change.
Except that those are absurdly rare occurances that just don’t happen in a case like this. Sandpiper knows they’ll get destroyed in court, they’re just playing chicken over the settlement amount. As a plaintiff in a case like this, I’d love for it to go to court, because I’d end up with even more money in the end.
No, it’s a perfectly appropriate word for Jimmy abusing the trust of people who respected him and thought he wouldn’t him, and taking one of those people’s lives and turning all of her friends against her for his own personal gain. “Attacked” is a perfectly appropriate word for what Jimmy did to her, and I’m not interested in another “know” discussion about the English language.
I know what you mean, but it does seem to be a rather determined and vigorous way to gain or exploit an advantage over others who may be working with a more common definition of the term.
If a simple present value calculation would bear you out, then why would HHM/FM hold out for more money? The present value calculation would say that they should take the deal now, so either they’re acting against their own interest or the present value calculation says you should hold out. Present value calculations are all percentage based, the answer of whether the money later is worth more than now is the same whether I’m looking at $10000 and $12000 or $1 million and $1.2 million. And if HHM/FM is acting against their own interest, Jimmy should have presented that argument to Howard instead of one that doesn’t work - especially since it would be very easy to show the calculation, and Jimmy could threaten to complain to the bar that they’re acting unethically by not working in anyone’s best interest.
Jimmy’s justification for his whole mall walking scheme relies on there being one correct answer for the Sandpiper residents, and that it’s a different answer than what HHM/FM are doing, and that it’s a different answer for HHM/FM and the residents. If any of those aren’t true, then Jimmy’s justification collapses into a pile of nothing.