The straw begins to accumulate until a fire hazard is declared, the the whole thing goes down in flames.
Until today I’ve not been aware of Bibleman but his posting is just what I’d expect from someone named Bibleman.
Now, if you’ll excuse me, for whatever sin I might have made in the above statement, I have to go whip myself in the prayer closet.
Before I get into the meat of my post, I figured that I’d share something with everybody. I like the second quote a whole lot, especially as it could’ve been written by BM.
I agree on that point (to a certain degree). If he was pretending to be a braindead fundie, then yeah, he’d be a blatant troll and deserving of immediate
banning. No passing go, no collecting 200 dollars.
But, I do think that he believes most of his claims (eg. the Bible is the direct word of God). IMO, that’s not where his trolling lies.
Where I see trolling, however, is in his refusal to acknowledge factual refutations, read counter-evidence (it’s jargon, ayieeee!), or admit when he’s made things up. Heck, his acts of making things up in the service of his agenda are trolling, in my book.
Or, to get a more nuanced position: he may even believe that Jesus fulfilled some nebulous “300” prophecies. But he is totally unable to cite which those are, and some of those “prophecies” that he does cite clearly have not been fulfilled. I find it difficult to imagine that he honestly believes those specific claims, especially since he has said, in black and white, that Jesus fulfilled all 300, and that there are at least some of the 300 that Jesus did not fulfill.
The question, of course, then becomes “were you lying then, or are you lying now?” In either case, his act of lying in order to serve an agenda, and especially lying in order to back up condescending smarmy verbal diarrhea in GD should get him smacked upside the head with the banstick.
Or, on the subject of lying in order to troll, his act of citing certain things as ‘fulfilled prophecies’… like having every single nation on earth oppose the nation that holds Jerusalem. When, of course, at no point in humanity’s entire history has every nation on earth been united against those who held Jerusalem. I suppose it comes down to interpretation of his intellect. Is he so stupid as to be at risk of drowning when it rains? Or is he just stupid enough to spout some of his crap, but not stupid enough to really believe that the Mayans and Aztecs were very concerned with affairs over in Jerusalem?
I’m glad you can empathize.
I do think that having a diversity of opinions and a marketplace of ideas is a very good state to be in. And if he were just a fundie, I would, honestly, probably still get a bit frustrated with him, But just a very small bit, hardly worth comment or emotional energy. My real objection, in this case, and the reason I wrote this thread, is not that he’s a fundie, or even that he’s stupid, it’s that he’s a lying troll. (And, okay, that he’s very, very, very, stupid. 
)
Or, as Zoe said:
Notice, for instance, his “rebuttal” to the fact that the original Hebrew used a word for ‘young woman’ and not ‘virgin’.
[
](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7924780&postcount=549)
Is this an honest denial? Does he really believe that knowing what a word in Hebrew means is “interpreting Scripture?” Or does he know that he’s full of it, that he can’t support his bullshit, and that he instead needs to make personal attacks about things being “beyond your capicity to interpret” while dodging the actual question?
I suppose that it really does boil down to an interpretation of his intellect, on which reasonable folks can disagree. I think he’s stupid, but not that stupid. Others may legitimately disagree.
D’oh!
It seems I missed a certain post in my browsing of the thread where he pretty much outright admitted to trolling.
[
](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7863628&postcount=360)
OHHHH we know what that is a Euphemism for…
Shhhhhhh…
Don’t make the baby Jesus cry.
Good catch!
It’s hard to say if he’s trolling, or if he came in to teach us heathen a lesson and found out that the magic words (The Bible said so) doesn’t work. Maybe he also found out that not knowing what he’s talking about doesn’t work around here. Maybe he’s only dealt with the ignorant before, and doesn’t know how to react to people who do know what they’re talking about.
I’ve never had anyone warned for insulting me before. It feels good. 
But I’m curious if there is any logic at all behind his position on evolution. Doesn’t look like it. Most trolls at least can trot out the arguments with some degree of believability - he’s about the most moronic creationist I’ve seen in 20 years who’s lasted more than three posts.
I don’t think it’s fair to lump Der Trihs in with those two. I think his opinions are lacking in nuance and extreme, but as far as discussion goes I don’t remember him being anywhere near as annoying. Plus he’s a decent poster in CS.
Maybe it’s a matter of what annoys you the most. IMO DT is a fundie in his views the same way BM and BC are. It’s my way is the right way and screw you if you can’t see it 24/7. All three refuse to consider any position but their own and use snide sarcasm and personal comments as a tool against others who disagree. All three enjoy pointing out the flaws in others arguments while stubbornly refusing to acknowledge any mistake or irrational augment they may have made.
IMO anybody who simply refuses to say “I think you have a valid point but I still don’t agree” or has an uncontrollable urge to scoff at others continually, has some real ego issue. I’ve made an attempt to have a discussion with all three and found it to be pretty useless. If DT can participate in CS as a regular Joe then great. As I said, I’m not for banning any of them. I’d rather see if hanging out on the SDMB might teach them something. They might just decide to stop posting on their own if other posters simply stop responding to their BS.
Oh, get off it- I specifically focused on the two pathologically religion/God/Jesus-hating members of the Board, and then expressed the wish that following the pissing, there is a happy reunion all around with our Maker.
AND I acknowledged later that my comments were indeed bad form.
Good day to you!
Remind me again which version of your delusion allows people to deny your god and his son all their lives and then have a happy reunion after they die.
In all fairness, some people do treat science as their religion. For an interesting read, try “Finding Darwin’s God” by Kenneth R. Miller (I haven’t read it myself, but my husband has, and keeps telling me how good it is.)
To be fair, I have to respond to that with tentative disbelief. Can you elaborate a bit?
If I’ve got some free time I’ll certainly see if I can grab myself a copy at the local library.
For some reason I thought you were a guy, probably because of the “Lou” part of yoru SN. Learn a new thing every day, eh? (And two on thursday.)
Kenneth Miller doesn’t treat science as his religion. In fact he’s a pretty mainstream Christian (Catholic IIRC) who tries to reconcile belief in God with modern science. (Note: I haven’t read the whole book, but I’ve read excerpts and reviews and interviews with Dr. Miller, and I think his general postition is pretty clear.)
Please permit me to doubt this is the least bit common. I know of many that on their own reconcile their Religious beliefs with their understanding of science. I have yet to meet or hear people that have done as you said.
Jim
Hopeful Universalism, and I hope it also applies to you as well as your pals.
If I’m wrong, remind me to give ya $5.
Sorry, I’ve been unclear again (what is it about this thread? 
) - I didn’t mean that Kenneth Miller treated science as religion, just that he had written a good book about the subject.
And FinnAgain, I get that a lot here. It must be the Lou throwing people off. Maybe I should have been a Lu.
Yeah, I figured out that’s what you meant after I posted. Sorry about that.
Although I wonder if any scientists really treat science as a religion in any meaningful way; That is, any way other than a vague metaphor for the feeling of wonder most of us get when we contemplate the complexity and variety of the universe. It just reminds me of the last South Park episode. “Science Damn you!” “Oh my Science.”
Doing a little research, the problem with saying that some people treat science as religion is not particularly appropriate because of the lack of a supernatural deity.
From this site:
I would say that there are many people who believe in science as a religion, with everything except the deity. I don’t know if that excludes it from being considered a religious belief in that case, or simply a strong opinion and a way of living.