Big Love 5:09 "Exorcism" (the penultimate episode)

Cafe Society
1

Didn’t Bill learn anything from horror movies? You have to shoot the villain in the head point blank because otherwise he’s going to shoot you. Not saying Alby will do this, but why take chances?
Is the Reformed Church Barb is going to the Community of Christ? I’d assumed it was a local offshoot.

Brother Selma got a perm. I gather Hollis died after being disarmed.

Why is Frank scrounging for copper plumbing to sell? I thought he was rich, or at least comfortable, through his UEB membership.

On whose authority could Bill, even if the municipality was removed, order a building bulldozed on the compound?

Ben and [del]Lesbo*Heather and Rhonda are a nice couple, I hope they work out.

I thought Cara Lynn was going to commit suicide rather than just burn some books. That was some pretty harsh hurt Nicki laid on her.

Question for Dogzilla or other past or present Mormon regarding the neighbors: Wouldn’t the church be willing to waive a tithe to somebody who was unemployed? This must be a case that comes up a lot, especially in bad economic times.

Any predictions for the last episode? Will Barb stay with Bill? Will Bill be arrested? Will Bill be the Prophet of Juniper Creek? Or will he leave all three of his wives and go off to raise champion Shih Tzus with Alby and Aunt Selma down in Mexico?

2

:: snerk ::

Short answer, no.

The Mormon church doesn’t “require” tithing. But they will guilt you to within an inch of your life if you don’t pay it. No tithing, no temple attendance. No temple attendance, no salvation. Most hard-core believing mormons will make other personal sacrifices in order to still pay tithing. That woman’s anxiety about not being able to pay tithing echoed a very real issue. I have heard stories of people taking out loans just to pay tithing, or allowing other bills to fall into arrears, or not buying groceries (i.e., not feeding the children) in order to pay tithing. Mormons believe paying tithing is like a ticket to blessings. Nobody ever goes to their bishop and asks for a reprieve from tithing because the bishop would point out that paying tithing is optional but why would you want a reprieve from obtaining blessings?

There is a bishop’s storehouse that’s like a food bank. Each local bishop has the authority to decide whether to hand out food & supplies to those in need and what firey hoops he will require those requesting assistance to jump through. Some bishops are more compassionate than others. Some will not give food/supplies from the bishop’s storehouse unless the member is current on tithing. Some will help anyone who needs it. There is no central mandate on this issue so everyone’s experience will be different.

In some hardship cases, I have heard stories of bishops agreeing to help make rent or mortgage payments or using church funds to help people pay their utilities to keep the heat on. I hear more stories about people begging the bishop for help but not receiving it because they chose to prioritize feeding their children over paying tithing. Some people choose the other way, figuring that god will provide for the children if they pay up. I have never had that kind of faith.

This is one of those angry-making issues that gets me kinda riled up, so I’ll stop there with my comments unless anyone has any other questions.

3

Thanks for the eye-opener, Dogzilla, although it wasn’t exactly a surprise (about the bishops wanting tithes first). My dad was a minister (he’s retired now); it just fills me with all kinds of grrrr to see people acting like ministers/priesthood holders/bishops who have had absolutely NO training in that area, especially none in pastoral counseling. They can be capable of creating more damage than the original situation, imho.

I’m still trying to digest everything that happened in last night’s episode. I almost got sick to my stomach at what Nikki said to Cara Lynn, it was beyond harsh. Really, Nikki had just come out of a situation in which she was nearly killed by her brother and she is so in need of professional help. Hell, all of them are! I’m still cheering for Barb, although finding it hard to believe that she’s hanging on to her LDS faith in whatever way she can. I guess that Reformed LDS church is the one that Joseph Smith’s widow formed with one of her sons? One more comment - Selma’s still around; interesting to note that Roman didn’t trust his own sister. Perhaps due to the influence of the Green family on her? More later, after I’ve had a chance to go over things and re-view the show.

4

Again, I have a very different take on things than Dogzilla. Having been a ward financial clerk in two different wards in two different states, my experience is very different.

I have never seen in practice, and only heard from mostly hostile sources, any requirement to be a full tithe payer before recieving assistance from the local Bishop. For one thing, reporting on tithing is completely on an honor system - how would a Bishop know? That assistance often includes help with rent, medical bills and utilities. In my experience, that kind of monetary assistance happens much more often than food and supplies from a Bishop’s Storehouse (that are fairly few and far between).

I can honestly say, from my own experience, that the majority of people I have dealt with who recieve assistance do not pay tithing. You don’t even have to be a member to recieve help in some cases.

Every stake (like a catholic diocese) has a “traveling Bishop” whose job it is to help stranded motorists, and often do so without qustioning tithing or membership status.

Yes, people are encouraged to pay tithing even in hard times, but my experience is that it is never required for assistance, and usually returned in much greater amounts in assistance back.

That is not to say that the LDS Church doesn’t give out money thoughtlessly - Bishops used to have (and may still, I don’t know) notices of people who travel around the country attempting to bilk the church (and other faiths as well) with sob stories. I have seen Bishops reject requests for paying assistance to able-bodied people who refuse to work, and to people who cry poverty while still holding on to luxury cars and boats and the like.

I myself, have recieved assistance twice in my life - both times after being fired (once, in Wyoming about 15 years ago, and once in Ohio about 10 years ago). Both times, I didn’t have any income, so I did not pay tithing, and the Bishop obviously knew it.

5

I really felt for Cara Lynn; she didn’t deserve that at all. Sadly, Nikki was projecting. Every single thing she said to her daughter was really how she feels about herself. Unfortunately, Nikki is the one with the least trust in psychology and the least likely to get help for herself and her daughter, both of whom desperately need it.

And I thought it was pretty damn funny that Ben thinks Rhonda + Heather would make a great polygamy team. Could he have chosen two women who are more opposite? Does he not see that Rhonda is a shark in a girl suit? I hope Heather gets a clue and walks away from him.

6

Bolding mine.

Of course. I made a point of noting that every bishop is different and everyone will have a different experience because there is no central mandate from SLC on this issue. Some bishops will give help when requested and some will not.

I try to give fair and somewhat balanced commentary about mormonism on these threads and when I’m being biased, I disclaim that so my comments can be taken with a grain of salt. Why do you respond sometimes like I think I’m telling gospel truth and just trying to disseminate bullshit information about the church? I frame my comments as my opinions, not facts. Discrediting my posts by framing them as “anti,” “hostile,” or “sour grapes” really doesn’t do much for your credibility.

7

It’s not believable to me that CaraLynn could be so nice, sympathetic, and generally likeable, with the background she has. Raised by JJ? I mean, Nikki was raised by Roman and Adaleen and the two of them seem downright lovable compared to JJ. Why isn’t CaraLynn more screwed up? She seems too perfect and angelic to be believable.

8

I’m sure I’m not the only one who thought, when Margine said she had to use the lady’s room: uh, oh… here comes trouble. Standard thriller rule of thumb-- never go anywhere alone.

I assume Alby shot the old guy security guard. And when Adelane said Alby never had the courage to do any of his dirty work by himself, well, we just saw him shoot what’s-his-name last week!

I really liked what they were doing with Cara Lynn’s character, but I find it completely out of character for her to flip 180 degrees like that.

Oh, and Ben. Nice little pitch for polygamy in front of your LDS GF, dude.

9

The kids singing Blowing in the Wind proved the old adage “While all Osmonds are Mormon not all Mormons are Osmonds”. If Nikki had wanted to really punish the girl she wouldn’t have checked out Lesbian Prison Cliche High School but just forced her to listen to the Henricksen Children Choir sing In A Gadda Da Vida on a loop for a couple of hours.

10

Last seen in Election, as I recall. :wink:

11

So how many things do they need to wrap up next week (which I assume is a regular 1 hour episode)?

-Alby (supposedly neutralized at the end of the episode but not necessarily)
-The pending charges against Bill
-Barb and Bill’s unraveling marriage
-Ben and babes
-Neighbor’s unraveling marriage (if they address it)
-Cara Lynn and the schoolteacher
-Lois and Frank’s Dysfunctional Dynner Theater production of “On [del]Golden Pond[/del] Juniper Creek”
-Nikki’s general insanity (not that it’s ever been wrapped up in 5 years)

Anything else?

12

Wildcard possibility (not that I’ve been right on much of anything in this series):

The across the street neighbor (sorry, I can’t remember her name) will ask to be Bill’s next wife. For her it would actually be at least an understandable: it would give her the next best thing to kids of her own, financial security (at least more than she has now), and a sense of belonging and worth.

13

What about Don Embry? If Bill ends up at Juniper Creek, Will Don end up running home plus and get out from under Bill’s thumb?

14

They’ve never really addressed Don’s marital situation since two of his wives ran away together, but unless he’s taken a fourth he’s not even a polygamist even more. If he ends up running Home Plus he needs to get a PR firm to make that widely known: “Home Plus: Polygamy Free Since Bill Left”.

15

I was disappointed in this episode…should’ve called it Kill Bill Vol 1.

I didn’t get the bulldozing of the compound buildings…I can’t believe that Bill would’ve got any real results that fast from a State Senate hearing, I can’t believe the Senate would’ve called a hearing at his behest in the first place and I mostly can’t believe that he would be allowed to rant about “false prophets” in an offical position on TV, he seemd as crazy as Alby.

What happened to the UEB last season after Dale’s suicide?, I can’t believe the government woudl give control back to Alby but it doesn’t sound like the state is controlling it anymore?

And they have a crazy killer after the family yet all 3 wives leave the kids to suprise Bill with one of those dorky picnic lovefests? Who was babysitting? Was Nicki really leaving Cara Lynn all alone?

The Margene/Goji scene kind of mirrored Bill’s attitude on life in general. Make your followers stick with you while you do a whole bunch of stupid stuff, don’t listen to them when they try to make you act smarter, push and push them to wreck their lives for YOUR beliefs, then quit when YOU feel like it and shrug it off.

At this point I really hope Don kills Bill, I think he deserves it.

16

I like how completely Ben blows it. He really does want to be with Heather, but wants to help Rhonda out too, so why not marry them both? I don’t even think he has any real romantic feelings for Rhonda. It looks pretty unlikely Heather comes back.

Barb should’ve pointed out Bill could change his church to allow women priesthoods a lot easier than she could change the Reformed Church to allow polygamy. I doubt he would’ve acquiesced right on the spot, but at least it would force him to see Barb’s beliefs aren’t the only ones causing the division between the two of them.

If Bill does go to jail, what’s the chances of the wives sticking together? I think Barb, with her children more or less grown or disappeared, will drift away following her own interests. And I can’t see Nicki & Margene working together without someone to mediate. Whatever happens, though, Margene getting pregnant is a horrible idea.

I liked the scene with Frank & Lois in the big house, though apparently is was there solely to lure Bill to Juniper Creek. When they walked off after Lois mentioning she had 3 bad days, I thought for sure Bill or Barb would stumble across them dead. Instead, they just show up back at the home off screen. Kinda pointless.

Does anyone else remember Bill was going to buy a big house of his own that everyone could live in? Going into this season, I thought the ending was Bill would be setting up his own community centered around that house and his church, but the church has been barely mentioned and the house hasn’t been mentioned at all

17

I think I’ve figured out the ending:

Bill will be sentenced to prison at Oswald State Penitentiary. HBO will then bring back OZ for another season, where Bill is now cellmates with Tony Soprano. He follows a pattern of divorcing each of his wives and marrying the next one on the cycle so he can have conjugal visits with all, but doesn’t know how to tell them that he’s now also married to Beecher and Sister Pete.

18

I thought the season before this one ended with Bill showing off that big house to his wives, and proposing that they all move there together.

19

I wonder why the Juniper Creek convenience store had coffee machines.

20

Mormons can still drink decaf coffee, can’t they?