big love 7/30 (spoylers)

Is it my imagination or has interest in this show declined lately on the Dope? In any case, I think tonight’s episode was a great one. The ending was a shocker - logically, it made sense, but I never expected Roman to be shot. I hope he’s not dead, because the show would suffer hugely if such a great character were removed.

Man, Hollis Green is hilarious. I love his bizarre way of talking on the phone, and his facial expressions. His character is like someone in a David Lynch movie. I hope he’s not out of the show completely (looks like there’s going to be a Waco-like battle between his camp and the ATF in the next episode - here’s hoping he’s not shot to death.) By the way, in the last discussion we established that Selma Green was female, but in this episode Hollis refers to “my brother Selma.” What’s with that? Is transvestitism/transexualism the “perversion” that Roman spoke of?

The incident with Ben proposing to his girlfriend - whoa, daddy! This kid has got some issues. Well, anyone would, I guess, in his situation, but he seems to be absorbing the worst elements of Bill’s lifestyle. “If it doesn’t work out and I fall in love with another girl, I could just make her my second wife!” Yeah, that’s the ticket.

The oral sex with Nikki just made me think of The Brown Bunny. I would love to see Vincent Gallo make an appearance on Big Love. It would be hilarious if he played an East Coast hipster passing through town on a cross country drive in a brown van, or something.

Yeah, :confused:
At Selma Green’s first appearance I thought Selma was a man- I thought nothing of the name Selma, there are so many archaic names in the cultish communities that I didn’t think Selma Green was a woman any more than I thought Stacy Keach was a woman. Selma’s speach and mannerisms kinda reminded me of Truman Capote, especially the evil devious Truman Capote in Murder By Death. So I took Selma to be a man, although somewhat effeminate.

Then Dopers seemed to come to consensus that Selma is a woman, pointing out that the character is played by a woman (please don’t tell actress Sandy Martin I thought she was a dude! I also thought Anne Ramsey was a dude). I then accepted Selma as a woman, thinking if the character was meant to be an effeminate man that they would have cast a male actor in the role.

Now I actually think there is supposed to be some confusion.
After Hollis and his followers were ambushed by Roman’s thugs, Hollis speak of himself and his followers being attacked and beaten . . . but he talks of Selma being “humiliated”.
Selma had apparently been singled out for special punishment and humiliation (and is depicted after the attack being covered in white powder or paint). But was the powder/paint the full extent of the humiliation? And why was Selma singled out for humiliation when the others were simply beaten???

I think it might have something to do with the strictly defined gender roles in the cult society. I think Selma has a woman’s body but has long held a position of great authority alongside Hollis. Being in such a position of power and authority, Selma lives as a man- since power and authority belong only to men.

There is no one high enough in the hierarchy of leadership to question Selma’s gender identity- other than Hollis, and Hollis has Selma in exactly the position Hollis wants Selma to be in. Only outsiders, Roman’s thugs, would dare expose Selma- thus the “humiliation”.

Just a guess.

P.S. I really liked Ginnifer Goodwin on the show “Ed”, but at the time I never thought I’d be saying “Ginnifer Goodwin! Wow, what a hottie!!!” . . . when Bill had her up against the window- jeez, oh man!

This is always a topic that leads to controversy, but… quite a few people don’t watch the “next week on” stuff, so if you could spoiler box it, that would be fantastic. (That’s the rule in the 24 threads, but not the Lost threads, fwtw…)
Anyhow, I thought this was a great episode. The way Hollis Green talks so formally and refers to “noon 45 o’clock” is hilarious, but the highlight (as is often the case) was Nicky. She’s such a great character… the way she’s so bitchy and catty at one moment, always teaming up with whichever other wife is there; then the next she’s doing something crazy like calling oral sex “emasculating”; and then the next moment she’s doing something incredibly generous like offering to skip her nights to keep her sister wives happy. And Chloe Sevigny is SUCH a great actress (not to mention utterly adorable).
Big Love is climing steadily up the hierarchy of great HBO shows…

I didn’t watch the preview for next week. I assumed there was going to be a clash from the scene towards the end of the episode that showed the Green clan running down that corridor, but the more I think about it, the more I think that maybe they were merely raided and Hollis arrested - since, the next scene shows Roman being shot by Green’s female thugs. So I think I’m actually wrong about this.

This episode was good enough to be a season finale. In fact, it was better than most season finales of other shows I’ve watched. Big Love is just getting progressively better and it’s a shame more people aren’t watching.

I think it was interesting in this episode how each of the wives’ roles are distinguished from the others (“the bad girl,” “the good girl,” “the confidant”). Each one has a role she plays in the family and gives Bill something that he needs/wants. It’s a very delicate balance though and it doesn’t take much to throw it off. I liked how the little seed of doubt planted in Margene’s mind by her mother last episode got brought up again (Am I here just for hot sex? Would Ana have replaced me as the hot wife?). It’s also interesting how Bill, Margene, and Nicki are totally open to the idea of a fourth wife but that could be the last straw for Barb.

I don’t know if message board interest is waning, but I’ve never been more into the show. I just don’t think I have as much to talk about each week with it.

Great episode last night. More sex than Entourage.

Did LOIS seriously offer up her ass to Bruce Dern for $22,000? :eek:

Nicky was amazing.

Ben is a terrible character, and the actor isn’t great shakes either. I guess he’s necessary because we want to see the succession, but I’ve never heard one believable thought or sentence come out of his mouth.

It was discussed first season how poorly written he was. It hasn’t really gotten any better. No one – especially no high school boy – acts or talks like him.

Still, this show is in the midst of a great season.

Selma is probably some form of hermaphrodite. The Greens are clearly inbred, something that is pointed out by Don Embry.

I was thinking earlier how much I love the way Hollis talks.

RIP Roman Grant. I was sad to see him go. He was my favorite character, so much smarter than Bill.

First, it seems that I was way off base about a month ago with some comments about the direction I thought the show was taking with Ben (I thought he was going to end up being abusive to Brynn). What a messed up kid though. I don’t know what Bill’s gesture of giving him priesthood status is going to help. Also, poor Barb. That had to hurt hearing her son say those things.

Bill is turning into quite the piece of work. If his plans fail it will mostly be due to his own hubris. If Roman is dead, Bill is probably going to get worse as he makes a play for Juniper Creek.

Speaking of Roman, about midway through the episode I made a comment to RogueGF about how much I enjoy the performances of Harry Dean Stanton and Bruce Dern. It will be a shame if either character is gone from the show.

I was almost uncomfortable watching the oral scene with Chloe Sevigny. Don’t get me wrong, she’s hot! I just would hate to see anything dredge up the past and once again derail her career.

:confused:
Wondering what the “dredge up the past and once again derail her career” bit means?
Only thing I can think of is that maybe it’s a Brown Bunny reference? A film that was universally panned as being a crappy movie, but it hardly derailed her career- she kept right on moving without skipping a beat.

It’s not as though she had a major presence in the public consciousness before that film, she mostly did indie type stuff that played to small audiences- though she’s pretty much always been a favorite among those small audiences. And very very few people ever actually saw Brown Bunny, many only know two things about it: it was universally panned as being a crappy movie and there was a non-simulated oral sex scene.

Not only did it not hurt her career or reputation, it added a certain fascination to her even among people who had never paid any attention to her work.

Now, I do believe it derailed the career of Vincent Gallo, a pretty talented guy.

Once Roman was shot, I started mentally counting the # of episodes so far, as I was afraid this was the season finally!

I agree pretty much with what others have been saying. Really good episode. I wonder if those two crazy women from Green’s cult may cause Bill some trouble real soon. But Roman’s death puts us one step closer to Bill taking over where his grandfather left off.

I guess I’ve been misinformed past Big Love threads. I’ve read a quite a few posts from people saying that they were glad that Chloe got this role and that Hollywood is accepting her again after Brown Bunny. It sounded reasonable, since Hollywood does have quite a stigma about the whole porn thing. Maybe I read into it too much? shrug

I think Ben’s actions have been well written this season. He obvoiusly has had it pounded into his head that premarital sex is deviant, but like most teenage kids having sex, it doesn’t keep him from wanting to do it. After his parents busted him on it, I think it makes perfect sense in his 16 year old brain that marriage is the answer. I think he thought Bill and Barb would be happy when he told them.

Interesting that Bill or Barb never brought up condoms, even when discussing the situation alone.

Seems like the major theme of this episode was “ratting out”. Everybody was giving each other up, including the bishop!
I love how Hollis ends his phone calls like he’s dictating a letter.

It was nice to see Barb’s character have a bit more depth than she has in the last few episodes. She seems so conflicted about their lifestyle.

I’d forgotten that moment. It was hilarious. Man I hate her. And then what did he say… “If I wanted to see an old caboose, I’d go to union pacific”?

It looks like this show is going where I predicted it would actually already be at the begining of the season. Bill trying to take over control of Juniper Creek. I’d say Roman is in the hospital and not dead.
And really, who DOESN’T know Bill’s a polygamist at this point?

I don’t really get how people think Roman is smarter than Bill… when has Roman actually outfoxed Bill on anything? It seems he’s managed to use mistakes Bill’s family has made to try to get leverage over him but Bill manages to always squeak out. Either by luck or moxie.

Bruce Dern’s character is much different this season. Before he was just a crazy, uncouth jerk… nows he’s dangerous.

Good catch. I hadn’t noticed that, but you’re right.

This is the best-written show going right now.

I just love how self-righteous and underhanded Bill has become (or, I guess, has exposed himself as being). You can take the boy out of Juniper Creek but you can’t take Juniper Creek out of the boy…

Speaking of which, Nicki’s line, when learning about Ben and his girlfriend (paraphrasing): “If this was Juniper Creek, he’d be dropped out on I-15 so fast his head would spin!” Correct me if I’m wrong, but a boy Ben’s age living at Juniper Creek stands a pretty good chance of getting kicked out no matter what, since he’s going to be seen as competition by the elders.

I agree with everything Max says, except for Nicki’s generosity. She’s incredibly insecure, a condition exacerbated by seeing how much Bill enjoys sex with Margie. She’s sure that Bill wants “time off” because of her, but she doesn’t want to admit this to the other wives so she blames Barb when talking to Margie and blames Margie when talking to Barb. She offers to give Bill space on her nights, not to protect the other women, but because she’s afraid that Bill is tired of her and her upbringing says that wives can be kicked out when the man gets bored.

There’s lots of lying going on in everyone’s internal dialogues here. Bill and his parents find out that all the money was stolen from a dying woman and are appalled, but what can they do about it other than use the money for their own ends.

Hearing Ben talk about “The Principle” was a shot of cold water in Barb’s face. She just came back a few weeks ago so she’s not too far from the edge; what happens when Bill decides that they have to move the whole family into Juniper Creek so that he can compete with Alvy for control?

Yes, his whole speech to Ben about how he can’t see his girlfriend again (but hey, it’s totally cool for Papa to marry three women and date a hot waitress who brings him pie) made me really hate him. Plus, all that crap about how the holy spirit or whatever it was spoke to him when he met Margene but not with Ana…oh, and Margene doesn’t get to have any say in whom he brings home. Just him. Blech.

Do you mean Alby? Or is there another character I’m forgetting now?

In fairness, he did stop short of sex with the hot waitress. So he is not being a hypocrite in saying “No sex outside marriage.”