From this thread I see many people say Bill Clinton cheated on his wife.
Does anyone have a cite for this?
What I mean is, does anyone have a reference or source that says the Clintons have a closed marrage? It seems Bill has had several other “relations” in the past yet Hillary stays with him.
I would think you could only “cheat” if the marrage didn’t allow it.
Yep, it all depends on what your definition of “cheat” is.
I can imagine her putting up with it (as many married women do) with roll-eyed contempt and silent anger, but in the case of this specific marriage, Hillary had to know that being married to Bill helped her own political ambitions immensely. He may be a cheating dog, but he’s damn smart and charming and had she dumped his ass back in 1991 or so, she would not now be the junior Senator from New York.
So what are you saying - if you cheat on your spouse, and your spouse stays with you, then you have the green light to cheat as much as you want?
If you’re asking me: Of course not. But you may be able to get away with more cheating if your spouse has a major incentive to stay married to you, as Hillary does. If she wanted to stay a Senator from NY forever (i.e. go no further politically) she could probably dump Bill now in a quiet divorce and suffer little repercussions. However, if she plans a Presidential run of her own in 2008 or 2012, she’ll have a better shot if she’s still married to him, provided he doesn’t do anything really flagrant (i.e. Chappaquiddick-sized) between now and then. A conventional marriage without these political elements probably would have dissolved long before now.
Of course, it’s also possible that despite his antics, she still loves the big dumb schmuck.
If you’re asking me…
What I’m saying is you can only “speed” in a place with posted speed limits.
I’m just a little tired of hearing this as no one seems to know the facts of their relationship -which is why I’m asking.
Depends on how they react. If they get mad at you, and you promise not to do it again, then it would be wrong of you to do it again. If you make no promises and they don’t tell you to stop, that’s pretty much a green light to me.
It’s THE LION IN WINTER, Arkansas style.
For all we know, he has permission. Hillary is the only one in a position to tell us whether or not what he did qualifies as cheating. Everthing else is just speculation.
And we aren’t going to know, because if they did have an agreement between each other that they would see other people, Hillary isn’t likely to admit that to the general public. You’re suggesting that they might have an “open” marriage, but I think it’s more likely that Hillary disapproves of the extra-marital affairs, but stays with Bill for the sake of her career (and perhaps for the sake of their daughter as well).
Well, if they had the standard wedding vows, then yes, what Bill did would, colloquially, be called “cheating”.
There are many published accounts stating that Hillary and Vince Foster had a long term relationship going. How reliable is questionable as are many of the accusations against them. There also rumors that Hillary’s true feelings lie with women. Deep down, I believe she loved him at one time, but she always knew how he was. I have read letters that have been published where she asks “how can you keep hurting me with all your girls” and such. She knew he was a rogue all along, but he was her best chance to get what she wants.
One other thing; Bill has supposedly told other women that he cannot get them pregnant as he had mumps after puberty or some such. Has anyone else noticed the similarity between Chelsea’s facial features and Web Hubble’s? She looks a lot more like him than Bill.
I have to agree with SPOOFE here. If they did the whole “Love,honor and cherish” bit at a church cerimony then ,YES , Bill is a big cheating dog.
I did that whole “bit,” and I don’t recall the bit about “and I won’t have sex with anyone else.” Perhaps if you define having sex with someone else as not “forsaking all others,” you have a point. Otherwise, the wedding vows don’t answer the question here. I take them to pertain to the union of the two people in the marriage, but not specifically to the usage of the bits and pieces. Certainly, it’s up to the partners in the marriage to define the terms, no?
A little common sense goes a long way. Since Clinton himself admitted to having had an “inappropriate relationship” with Lewinsky, it is safe to say that indeed he was cheating on Mrs.Clinton, and was not involved in some sort of ‘open marriage’.
What I like about this thread is that it supports Bill Safire’s theory that Hillary is a congenital liar. If we thought she were honest, we would know where she stands on Bill’s philandering.
I’ve got to ask you, Texican, are their any unsubstanciated rumors about the Clintons that are just to vile and ugly to pass on, or does your irrational hatred of them justify anything you might say?
The only thing this thread supports is the fact that some people will pass on any rumor if it involves the Clintons. Are you willing to say that all people in open marriages are “congenital liars”? It’s not enough that the Clintons are EVI*L because they had the audacity to be Democrats-you and others just have to pass on ugly rumors about the both of them being mentally ill. The only facts we have are:
I am curious, does your indignation carry over to when there are unsubstantiated, ugly rumors about Republicans? At least I have the decency to post them as they are, as unsubstanTiated, and not as gospel fact like those posted about Bush.
I guess it also depends on what your definition of unsubstantiated is, after all. The Clintons have made a habit of defending themselves not by outright disproval of allegations, but by obfuscation, delay, obstruction, and if all else fails fall back on the trusty “I can’t recall” defense.
Um… why is there any ‘perhaps’ about it; ‘Forsaking all others’ (which statement actually goes on to say ‘…be faithful to [him/her] as long as you both shall live?’), then there’s the bit later where the groom says ‘all that I am I give to you’…
[sub]NB: this is the C of E marriage vows[/sub]
But yes, it’s all down to semantics; one can apparently imaginatively define ‘faithful’, ‘all’, ‘forsake’, ‘is’ as anything one should choose. I’m pretty sure though, that the spirit of the generic Christian marriage vow is unconditional fidelity.