This came up in a polite conversation the other day, and we couldn’t agree on an answer.
Assume A, a hetero guy, is dating B, a bi girl, seriously for, say, several months. No explicit “ground rules” are set at the beginning of the relationship. B goes out with her friends, including C, a bi girl. Drinks are had, and a makeout session ensues which develops into full-on lesbian sex.
Has B cheated on A?
My position: Absolutely. Relationships are emotional in nature and not gender-related; to assert that relationships are at their essence gender-related would be to deny that a gay or lesbian couple can have a relationship. As such, unless A gives B his permission to date other girls, B doesn’t simply retain the right to sleep with girls any more than A has the right to cheat on her. (Of course, this isn’t to say that they have any control over each other, any more than the normal courtesy/agreements involved in a monogamous relationship.)
I agree it’s cheating. I have a good (female) friend that has a bisexual boyfriend that often fools around with other guys. They don’t consider it cheating and have a deal that bi encounters are ok. I didn’t make a big deal out of it, but I told her that if he picks something up and gives it to her, I’d break his kneecaps.
I think people don’t see it so much as cheating because in these cases, the one that gets cheated on doesn’t see the cheater’s same-sex partners as a threat to their relationship. I can sympathize with that, because I’d be less inclined to think a girl could “steal” my girlfriend than a guy, and that I’m still the “man” in the relationship, but I still would never agree to anything like my above-mentioned friends.
If you are in a relationship in which it is agreed both parties expect monogamy and one of those people break that agreement-- isn’t that the definition of cheating?
See, I don’t get it, either. It’s just that some people I know - and of course, I don’t have a cite for this, since it’s just discussion - seem to think that it’s not cheating if the “C” person is a different sex than the “A” person.
IMHO, it’s cheating because the guy didn’t know about it. Any sex/sexual activity that takes place without the other’s knowledge is cheating.
However, I am of the opinion that a relationship like this can be fully functional, as long as everyone knows about everyone else and is comfortable with both their status and the status of everyone else involved.
Even tho I’ve had it explained to me that it’s the same, I’d not be threatened by the other woman like I would be by another man. As long as it was not on the same level (on an emotional scale) as our boy-girl relationship, I’d be ok with my girl having a (physical) girlfriend even if I didn’t get to view/participate in any of the festivities between them.
A key part of that working would have to be that the other woman would have to not resent me or intrude on our time either. Mutual respect, yada yada. Lesbians I like and respect. Militant, man-hating lesbians I can live without.
Well, this to me is contradictory. I think in any serious relationship, there is the monogomy groundrule. Though after awhile, I guess that it would be implied, but still arguable.
First off, I have some trouble with “unless A gives B his permission”
His permission??? Like he has control over her? Like he owns her? I permit/deny you to sleep with others?
Second: “No explicit “ground rules” are set at the beginning of the relationship”
Here’s trouble waiting to happen. The marriage will be like that too, nothing declared up front and after the trainwreck everybody will wonder what went wrong.
In a serious relationship you explore the difficult issues and don’t wait to be blindsided by assumptions. “B” may have been “cheating”, but like some other heated debates here the definition of “cheating” may have to be declared up front in both the relationship and the post.
My belief is that until you sign the prenuptial all bets are off. But you better stick to the contract you signed.
Well, you said that no ground rules were set. Unless they had agreed to exclusivity, I can’t agree that cheating went on. However, the gender of C doesn’t fall into play at all.
Do they still feel that way if “B” and “C” are men? Your example involved women in those roles so I feel I should ask, since many people do not consider sex between two women with no man involved to be “real” sex like sex between a man and a woman or even two men is. I know that sounds strange, but believe me, there are people who hold these views.
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Second: “No explicit “ground rules” are set at the beginning of the relationship”
Here’s trouble waiting to happen. The marriage will be like that too, nothing declared up front and after the trainwreck everybody will wonder what went wrong.
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Okay, obviously I wasn’t clear enough on this. The assumption was that they were in a monogamous relationship. I assumed that would be picked up, as I tried to frame the scenario so the only issue involved was whether a girl dating a guy who sleeps with another girl is cheating.
You know, I just KNEW someone was going to have issues with that. I’d appreciate it if you’d read the whole post before you make ridiculous replies like this, as that was obviously not the intent of the situation. I thought my caveat:
covered that nicely, but perhaps ‘consent’ or ‘acquiesence’ would have been a better word. Alternatively, if you disagree with the concepts of monogamy and cheating, then of course this wouldn’t make sense to you… but that’s not what the thread is about.
Of course it’s cheating. This whole “same-sex” doesn’t count bit is BS. If that’s what someone chooses to believe and they have an open relationship, more power to them. However, it is not a rational reason, it is somewhat naive and it will lead to trouble later on. Have fun.
What if C was a different species, or even inanimate?
Ok stupid question, but I’ve known people who think that if their girlfriend uses a vibrator she’s cheating. :S
IMHO, Cheating is something that would hurt the other person, it’s up to the people involved to decide if their ideas or hurt are realistic or not.
If I went out on two simple dates with another person, there is probably no implicit expectation of monogamy. If we date regularly for two months, to the exclusion of all others, and are established as a couple, then there normally IS an implicit agreement of monogamy unless it has been explicitly discussed.
Cheating is having sex outside a monogamous relationship without the knowledge and acceptance of the the other partner. There is nothing to STOP woman “B” from having sex with anyone, she just has no reasonable expectation to remain with person “A” after that, and CAN reasonably be called a cheater.
petcat, there are unspoken societal expectations. If we meet in a social setting, you have the reasonable expectation that I will not slap you in the face, or scream obscenities at the top of my lungs. That behavior is outside the implied standard of behavior. There is no contract, and it within my rights to scream at the top of my lungs. But it is wrong. You would have no right to stop me, but every right to walk away quickly and be upset with me for that behavior.
This is like that old question about whether or not getting a blow job or a hand job is cheating. Apparently, there are people in the world who think that anything other than penis penetrating vagina is not sex, and therefore should not be considered grounds for cheating. I’m not one of them. I agree with Ace; relationships are emotional in nature. Doing intimate things with anyone other than your SO is cheating, in my opinion.
Dang it, why do I keep thinking of things after I hit submit?
This also brings to mind that thread we had a while back about whether there could be cheating without any sexual conduct. I think that there can be; someone who is taking their emotional investment away from the relationship and giving it to someone else should also be considered to be cheating.