[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
It is a known fact. He’s an expert, and his opinion is a cite. Don’t believe it? Just ask him.
[/QUOTE]
Thank you. I thought I’d made that clear in the other thread.
[QUOTE=RedFury]
Eleanor, just right-click on the post number (right next to the ‘report post’ triangle) and chose “copy link location” from the drop-down menu. Once that’s on your clipboard you can either post it directly like this:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9749651&postcount=238
or make it tidy by naming it and then adding the URL to your wording:
[url= whatever is on your clipboard] name of link [ /url] – skip the space in last bracket.
Hope that helps.
[/QUOTE]
Thank you. Here goes
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9745250&postcount=132
Weird. It doesn’t want to work but I get the principle. Sorry for the hijack, all. You can all go back to your reviling and mudslinging now.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Thank you. I thought I’d made that clear in the other thread.
[/QUOTE]
My pleasure.
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
It is a known fact. He’s an expert, and his opinion is a cite. Don’t believe it? Just ask him.
[/QUOTE]
Of course. Silly me.
[QUOTE=you with the face]
I noticed that, too.
Hypocrisy on aisle 2.
[/QUOTE]
Do you know the difference between a question and a statement?
And if there are physical differences between whites and blacks that makes elite black athletes superior, it would be racist to hold that position regardless of its factualness.
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
Do you know the difference between a question and a statement?
[/quote]
Gee, I don’t know. Do you know what a lame retort looks like? Perhaps you might want to regroup and prepare something a little bit better than this weakass comeback. Four hours apparently is not enough time for you.
Your brilliance shines bright.
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
Do you know the difference between a question and a statement?
And if there are physical differences between whites and blacks that makes elite black athletes superior, it would be racist to hold that position regardless of its factualness.
[/QUOTE]
Maybe if you sang it to her…
Regards,
Shodan
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil]
As far as music goes, I will say this: white people tend towards technical aspects and black people tend towards emotive music.
It’s no coincedence that the collected amalgam of music of each culture reflects their woes.
If we can concede on an intellectual level that black people perfected the blues as a result of their common station in life, then we agree.
[/quote]
Have you ever listened to those Kronos Quartet crackers play Shostakovich’s Quartet No. 8? Goddam, that’ll give you chills; it’s a piece dedicated to Stalin’s dead, and I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a more emotional piece of music. I’m no musical expert, but that one goes straight to my heart.
In a different, more spare way, U2’s “October” does the same thing.
Black people have no monopoly on emotional music; nor do white people have a monopoly on technically brilliant pieces.
I have heard an idea that European music emphasizes tonality, whereas African music emphasizes rhythm. Again, I’m no expert, but that seems to me to be an interesting an defensible claim; and if somebody finds rhythm more compelling than tonality, then bully for them. I’m more of a tone-guy, but whatever works. (There’s a story, possibly apocryphal, about a famous African musician hearing Beethoven’s Ninth symphony and being bored out of his skull by it, because he was listening mainly to the dull-as-dishwater rhythm).
This part I agree with.
Dio, I’d like you to look at the instruments that appear most often in African-American music. Most of them (banjo excepted) have a European pedigree. If Elvis borrowed from black musicians, they borrowed from whites; undermining either’s genius by pointing out the shoulders they stand on is a losing argument.
In fact, the whole thing is silly. There are interesting ways to talk about the differences in musical or other artistic traditions in different cultures; I’d love to read an informed discussion of parallels between Romani music and the blues, for example (the closest I’ve gotten is hearing the lead singer of Gogol Bordello going off on a drunken tear claiming that gypsies were the original punk–entertaining but not that enlightening). But an interesting discussion is going to be full of nuance and specificity, not a sweeping statement of personal preference disguised as fact.
Daniel
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness]
In a different, more spare way, U2’s “October” does the same thing.
[/QUOTE]
Not to be contrarian but the way Vusi Mahlasela sings and picks his guitar with “Sometimes you can’t make it on your own” is to me at this point in my life quite possibly the perfect song. A U2 song interpreted so sublimely, so magically. You should check it out, it’s on a tribute CD to U2 by various African artists.
On a side note as a trumpet player I like to think what might’ve happened if Miles Davis had recorded the New World Symphony. Or the Marine Corps Hymn.
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness]
Have you ever listened to those Kronos Quartet crackers play Shostakovich’s Quartet No. 8? Goddam, that’ll give you chills; it’s a piece dedicated to Stalin’s dead, and I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a more emotional piece of music. I’m no musical expert, but that one goes straight to my heart.
In a different, more spare way, U2’s “October” does the same thing.
Black people have no monopoly on emotional music; nor do white people have a monopoly on technically brilliant pieces.
I have heard an idea that European music emphasizes tonality, whereas African music emphasizes rhythm. Again, I’m no expert, but that seems to me to be an interesting an defensible claim; and if somebody finds rhythm more compelling than tonality, then bully for them. I’m more of a tone-guy, but whatever works. (There’s a story, possibly apocryphal, about a famous African musician hearing Beethoven’s Ninth symphony and being bored out of his skull by it, because he was listening mainly to the dull-as-dishwater rhythm).
This part I agree with.
Dio, I’d like you to look at the instruments that appear most often in African-American music. Most of them (banjo excepted) have a European pedigree. If Elvis borrowed from black musicians, they borrowed from whites; undermining either’s genius by pointing out the shoulders they stand on is a losing argument.
In fact, the whole thing is silly. There are interesting ways to talk about the differences in musical or other artistic traditions in different cultures; I’d love to read an informed discussion of parallels between Romani music and the blues, for example (the closest I’ve gotten is hearing the lead singer of Gogol Bordello going off on a drunken tear claiming that gypsies were the original punk–entertaining but not that enlightening). But an interesting discussion is going to be full of nuance and specificity, not a sweeping statement of personal preference disguised as fact.
Daniel
[/QUOTE]
A great, great post, Left Hand of Dorkness. I would add to your list the music of Indian nations, which is often caricatured as simplistic rhythms and tones. The fact is that the complexities in tempo and melody were so nuanced that drums and flutes were capable instruments of communication over long distances, while more intimate songs were spiritual and uplifting. I think that, universally, music comes from the heart of man.
All of it — with the obvious exception of bag pipes — is beautiful. 
[QUOTE=John Mace]
So, I guess White people are better at science. Einstein.
In fact, I think we can start making a whole list of things that White people are better at.
[/QUOTE]
Wow, I agree with John Mace. I can go kill myself now.
Just because historical and cultural opportunities and fallout have led to more black people succeeding (artistically, at least) in the kind of music DtC happens to like, or more white people have succeeded as Wall Street upper management, does not in any way mean that such things are biologically determined. To insist otherwise, Diogenes, is, yes, racist.
[QUOTE=lissener]
Wow, I agree with John Mace. I can go kill myself now.
[/QUOTE]
Ah, come on. I’m sure we’ve agreed a few times in the past. And I’d wager we agree on a lot more than you think! 
[QUOTE=Shodan]
It’s a white thing. You wouldn’t understand.
Regards,
Shodan
[/QUOTE]
But, but, I’m not white.
As for you, Dio, the idea that I would give you enough thought to burst into tears over your extraordinarily trite nonsense, reflective of a mind without an original thought in its head, is risible in the extreme. IRL, I’ve got more important things going on, what with multiple close folks who insist on dying horribly and money stuff and, of course (being as I’m straight and male), the perpetual Pussy Shortage (see Pryor, et alia). So, the idea that I would burst into tears over an anonymous message board poster is just preposterous. Also, egotistical. But that’s pretty much par for the course for you, eh?
ywtf: explaining what I said would take away its power. Either you get it or you don’t.
I’m pretty amazed that you can’t see a Patronizing White Liberal, though. You must be young. There were lots more of them around back in the sixties and seventies. Hated 'em then, still despise 'em now. But they’re a lot rarer these days.
Despite finding his politics awful, I’d rather have a scotch with William Buckley. Or Chris Caldwell (whom I actually manage to agree with from time to time). Or Shodan (although I suspect Shodan prefers beer. Not sure about that. I’ll take a Sam Adams, if that’s the case.) At least with them, I’ll know I’m being judged on the content of my character.
With Dio, forget it. You’d never get past the surface.
God, you’re full of shit. If I’m so patronizing, then why do I think you’re a grandstanding douchebag?
[QUOTE=pantom]
ywtf: explaining what I said would take away its power. Either you get it or you don’t.
I’m pretty amazed that you can’t see a Patronizing White Liberal, though. You must be young.
[/QUOTE]
I’m pretty amazed that you can’t see the irony of calling someone patronizing in the middle of committing that offense twice within the span of 3 sentences.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
God, you’re full of shit. If I’m so patronizing, then why do I think you’re a grandstanding douchebag?
[/QUOTE]
Dunno. Don’t give a shit.
[QUOTE=you with the face]
I’m pretty amazed that you can’t see the irony of calling someone patronizing in the middle of committing that offense twice within the span of 3 sentences.
[/QUOTE]
You could address the actual content of the post, you know. Or not.
[QUOTE=pantom]
Dunno. Don’t give a shit.
[/QUOTE]
Let me help you, then. You;v e made a series of pronouncements about how you imagine I think without knowing a fucking thing about me. You are what you think you’re condemning. You think you’ve pegged me as a type and you therefore feel justified to attribute all kinds of attitudes and assumptions onto me with absolutley no basis. You are sterotyping and you are prejudging me based solely on one datum of information.
And let’s revisit this bullshit for a second:
What the fuck are you referring to here? What cultural stuff am I claiming to see? The only cultural variable I’ve made reference to is an alleged difference in learning styles discussed in a study which was linked in another thread. Read my posts, asshole.
After reading this shit like ten times, I still can’t figure out what the fuck you’re talking about or what it has to do with anything I’ve said.
Fuck you and fuck your sanctimony. Guess what, dickhead. I’m judging you by the character you’ve shown in this thread, and I think you’re a fucking idiot with a persecution complex.
[QUOTE=pantom]
You could address the actual content of the post, you know. Or not.
[/QUOTE]
I didn’t see any actual content. You might want to go back to the store and see if you left it at the cashier by mistake, because all I saw was a condenscending response to a rather polite request for clarification.
Continue to call Dio a Patronizing White Liberal all you like , but leave my name out it if you can’t be bothered to explain yourself.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Let me help you, then. You;v e made a series of pronouncements about how you imagine I think without knowing a fucking thing about me. You are what you think you’re condemning. You think you’ve pegged me as a type and you therefore feel justified to attribute all kinds of attitudes and assumptions onto me with absolutley no basis. You are sterotyping and you are prejudging me based solely on one datum of information.
And let’s revisit this bullshit for a second:
What the fuck are you referring to here? What cultural stuff am I claiming to see? The only cultural variable I’ve made reference to is an alleged difference in learning styles discussed in a study which was linked in another thread. Read my posts, asshole.
After reading this shit like ten times, I still can’t figure out what the fuck you’re talking about or what it has to do with anything I’ve said.
Fuck you and fuck your sanctimony. Guess what, dickhead. I’m judging you by the character you’ve shown in this thread, and I think you’re a fucking idiot with a persecution complex.
[/QUOTE]
Jesus. If you hit a tree, it’d be a meeting of the minds.
Lemme hep you out: I was in fact referring, specifically, to the “only cultural variable I’ve made reference to”.
As for having read my shit ten times and still not being able to figure it out, what, you expect me to be surprised??? You’re too stupid to know how stupid you are.