[QUOTE=pantom]
JLemme hep you out: I was in fact referring, specifically, to the “only cultural variable I’ve made reference to”.
[/quote]
If you’re saying that the different learning styles were a result of cultural stressors, then how does that make me wrong?
I wasn’t the only one who didn’t know what the fuck you meant. I still don’t think you even know what the fuck you meant.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
If you’re saying that the different learning styles were a result of cultural stressors, then how does that make me wrong?
I wasn’t the only one who didn’t know what the fuck you meant. I still don’t think you even know what the fuck you meant.
[/QUOTE]
I’m quite clear on that, thank you very much.
Culture <> environment. Two different things. You’re confusing natural adaptation to hostility with how people live. Same as Obama confusing rural ways with adapting to hard times.
It’s not exactly surprising, of course, that you make the same mistake he does, only in reverse.
I hope that’s clear.
[QUOTE=pantom]
I’m quite clear on that, thank you very much.
Culture <> environment. Two different things. You’re confusing natural adaptation to hostility with how people live. Same as Obama confusing rural ways with adapting to hard times.
It’s not exactly surprising, of course, that you make the same mistake he does, only in reverse.
I hope that’s clear.
[/QUOTE]
First of all, that whole study was brought up and endorsed by Jeremiah Wright, so if you think it contains patronizing liberal assumptions, then Jeremiah Wright is a patronizing white liberal.
Second of all, adaptation to a hostile cultural environment is still CULTURAL adaptation.
Thirdly, Obama made no such confusion. He was making a statement about voting decisions, not cultural traditions (even though he admittedly worded it badly).
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
First of all, that whole study was brought and endorsed by Jeremiah Wright, so if you think it contains patronizing liberal assumptions, then Jeremiah Wright is a patroning white liberal.
Second of all, adaptation to a hostile cultural environment is still CULTURAL adaptation.
Thirdly, Obama made no such confusion. He was making a statement about voting decisions, not cultural traditions (even though he admittedly worded it badly).
[/QUOTE]
1 - Wright lurvs patronizing white liberals. He wouldn’t know what to do with himself without them.
2 - I didn’t say adaptation to a hostile cultural environment. I said, adaptation to hostility. One is built into society. The other is an attitude that one can have, or not have. Two different things. One is societal, the other individual. Make the distinction.
3 - I’ve read Obama’s quote. I know exactly what he meant. He was confused. His confusion is the same as yours. Societal <> individual. Individual <> societal. Make the distinction.
[QUOTE=pantom]
1 - Wright lurvs patronizing white liberals. He wouldn’t know what to do with himself without them.
2 - I didn’t say adaptation to a hostile cultural environment. I said, adaptation to hostility. One is built into society. The other is an attitude that one can have, or not have. Two different things. One is societal, the other individual. Make the distinction.
3 - I’ve read Obama’s quote. I know exactly what he meant. He was confused. His confusion is the same as yours. Societal <> individual. Individual <> societal. Make the distinction.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=lissener]
Just because historical and cultural opportunities and fallout have led to more black people succeeding (artistically, at least) in the kind of music DtC happens to like, or more white people have succeeded as Wall Street upper management, does not in any way mean that such things are biologically determined. To insist otherwise, Diogenes, is, yes, racist.
[/QUOTE]
Double true. Any answer for this Dio?
[QUOTE=Quint]
Double true. Any answer for this Dio?
[/QUOTE]
I haven’t ever said it was biologically determined. much less “inisisted on it.” In fact, I said said multiple times that I don’t believe there is any genetic or biological basis for it.
[QUOTE=Harmonious Discord]
No it wasn’t meant to sting.
[/QUOTE]
So, you have no explanation for why the statements were so extremely racist?
[QUOTE=pantom]
As for having read my shit ten times and still not being able to figure it out, what, you expect me to be surprised??? You’re too stupid to know how stupid you are.
[/QUOTE]
I think Dio is coming off as an ass in this thread, but just for the record, your largely incoherent attempt to join the pile-on makes you look like a colossal douchebag. Just for the record.
[QUOTE=Cervaise]
I think Dio is coming off as an ass in this thread, but just for the record, your largely incoherent attempt to join the pile-on makes you look like a colossal douchebag. Just for the record.
[/QUOTE]
He’s coming off like the energizer bunny to me.
Gotta love him.
[QUOTE=Omegaman]
He’s coming off like the energizer bunny to me.
Gotta love him.
[/QUOTE]
White people are better than Blacks and Asians at arguing. Not nearly as good as Jews, though.
No we aren’t.
Regards,
Shodan
Trying to pin down Diogenes is like trying to click on one of those online “Click Me” buttons that move the moment you try to click them. And while others have a meltdown after such a strong pile-on, he continues full-force. Pretty amazing to witness.
Anyway, even though it’s like beating a dead horse, below is my 2 cents. Let’s start with a small recreation of the dialog that occurred on the subject:
John Mace:
You think Whites and Blacks have brains that work differently, per the quote above? That sounds like nonsense to me.
Diogenes:
There is apparently scientific evidence backing it up. Neither one of us is a neurologist or an expert on brain physiology, so neither one of us is in a position to say the study is “bullshit.” It actually makes a lot of sense to me. It explains why black people are better at music, for instance.
Autolycus
Racism:
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
Diogenes:
I don’t believe race exists biologically at all (I see the difference I’m being pitted for alleging to exist as cultural, not biological), much less that it’s a determinant of anything and I certainly don’t discriminate, so I don’t fit any of this criteria.
John Mace:
Except that if you go back and read the original comment, it came about in the context of biology and neuroscience
Sarahfeena:
OK, now I’m curious. Which is it, Diogenes? Culture or biology?
Diogenes:
Culture. I misunderstood what the study was claiming the first time I read it.
This is bullshit.
You did think there are biological differences between blacks and whites (since you said “There is apparently scientific evidence backing it up”, after John asked “You think Whites and Blacks have brains that work differently”)
Why didn’t this “apparent scientific evidence” raise any red flags in your mind since it goes against your professed belief that “I don’t believe race exists biologically at all… much less that it’s a determinant of anything”?
Nope. I never said or thought that the difference was biological. I said over and over that I thought it was not. That angle is a non-starter. I will no longer respond to that particular lie.
Dio is one of those hounds who has been clipped by a horse a few too many times. He thinks he’s in the hunt, is positive he can smell a fox, but unfortunately has merely stepped in fox shit, and is growling at everyone else to defend his catch, while gnawing on his own paw.
Some posts that Polerius conveniently left out of his recap:
Two and a Half Inches of Fun
It goes against the general consensus there is no fundamental difference in neurological function between white people and black people. You can look at all the research that has been presented to refute the racist The Bell Curve by Richard J. Herrnstein and Charles Murray.
Me:
It looks to me like she’s saying the differences are cultural, not physiological, but she knows more tham either one of us so neither of us is qualified to assert that it’s “bullshit,” and even if itwere, there’s nothing racist about Wright believing it.
2.5:
It says that white people are superior at logic—black people at creativity.
Me:
Not inherently, just as a cultural artifact of different learning styles.
Me:
None of this is genetic, though, it’s cultural. That study in the other thread on right brain/left brain pedagocical differences in culture makes a lot of sense. White European classical music was sterile and mathematic and rigid. Black folks had to show them how to incorporate blue notes and more relaxed rhythms and whatnot. It’s more expressionistic and less rational. Since music is the most abstract and most expressionistic of all the arts, it’s the most amenable to right brain creative processes.
Me:
I don’t believe race exists biologically at all (I see the difference I’m being pitted for alleging to exist as cultural, not biological), much less that it’s a determinant of anything and I certainly don’t discriminate, so I don’t fit any of this criteria.
So let’s put this bullshit to bed that I alleged any genetic or biological difference.
[QUOTE=Shodan]
No we aren’t.
[/QUOTE]
Well, that’s not an argument. That’s just contradiction!
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
So let’s put this bullshit to bed that I alleged any genetic or biological difference.
[/QUOTE]
Sarahfeena:
OK, now I’m curious. Which is it, Diogenes? Culture or biology?
Diogenes:
Culture. I misunderstood what the study was claiming the first time I read it.
This means that the first time you read it you thought it was biology.
We know this is because:
a) you now think it is claiming cultural reasons for the differences,
and
b) you state that you first misunderstood what the study was claiming.
which means that when you first read it, you thought it was explaining the differences biologically, which is when you had this exchange with John Mace
John Mace:
You think Whites and Blacks have brains that work differently, per the quote above? That sounds like nonsense to me.
Diogenes:
There is apparently scientific evidence backing it up.
<aside>
For the record, I think there may in fact be biological differences that are based on what people colloquially call “race”.
The funny thing is that doctors seem OK with it (e.g. certain “races” have a predisposition to certain diseases, more so than other “races”, due to genetics), but in modern society we are not supposed to even suggest that biological differences among “races” are possible.
Of course, if there are genetic variations among the groups colloquially known as “races”, and if certain abilities (musical, athletic, reasoning) have at least a partial base in genetics, it makes sense, that, either due to evolution, or purely due to chance, some of these “races” may have a statistically higher proportion of people who are good in these areas.
There is no reason to assume that all the groups known as “races” have exactly the same percentages of people who are good in music, athletics, science, etc
Even if you made some random categorization of people (say tall vs short people), there is no reason to assume that both groups of people would have exactly the same percentage of people who are good math, science, athletics, art, music, etc.
Of course, there is also no reason to assume that these groups have to be different. Studies should show whether there are statistical differences or not. But people seem to dismiss out of hand that two groups can have different percentages of people that are good at certain tasks.
The fact that doctors routinely ask about your race, so they can screen you for certain diseases that some races are genetically predisposed to, while in the general population people argue about whether genetic statistical differences can exist among races, and even whether such a thing as “race” exists reminds me of the evolution debate.
While many in the general population argue about whether evolution is a correct theory or not, and a large percentage severely doubt it, almost everyone in the scientific field takes evolution for granted and many do research and discover new drugs and other things based on their knowledge of how evolution works.
You’re selectively omitting posts again. I said that I had initially believed the study was claiming that different learning methods had a neurological effect on the brain. I never said I thought there was any genetic difference.
This. Thread. Must. Stop. Right. NOW. The prophecy demands it!