If being a lesbian were completely incompatible with being a Star Trek fan you might have a point, but as it is you don’t. You’re not as clever as you think you are.
Assuming you are here to discuss this in good faith, I’ll give this one more shot. There is a substantial difference between a majority group - pissed up straight guys in pubs - generally agreeing that yes, although of course they are *entitled *to go there, it might be a bit of courtesy if by and large they left a smaller, traditionally marginalised group - lesbians - to have their own space in which to drink, and not seek to invade en masse to deliver off-key renditions of Stand By Me just because they are allowed to. Manners, you see? This is in no way equivalent to that same majority group - pissed up straight white guys - deciding that a different traditionally marginalised group - black people - should be legally barred from drinking alongside them. The difference, you see, is where the power lies.
I see completely: the only difference is whose ox is being gored.
You are not the first person who has tried to justify discrimination by saying: “but our discrimination is fundamentally different and reasonable.” I understand your argument completely.
Unfortunately for your argument, rights don’t inhere in “groups,” marginalized or otherwise. There will only be individuals at that bar, and individuals DO have rights. The “courtesy” you refer to should entail treating all individuals with dignity and respect, even if they’ve had the misfortune of having been born male and heterosexual.
You can discriminate against any groups you like, and justify it however you choose. But I will treat all individuals with the dignity they deserve, and that certainly entails upholding their right to enter all places of public accommodation.
Who’s arguing that the straight guys should be prevented from going to a lesbian bar?
Well, I don’t know why you didn’t offer this suggestion first. So if the bachelor party dresses up like Trekkies, the lesbians won’t object to their presence?
HEY OP, PROBLEM SOLVED!
I’m not arguing for discrimination from the lesbian bar; I’m arguing for courtesy from the stag party. Every year the City Council holds the Teddy Bears Picnic in the park, and it’s pitched primarily at young kids and their parents*. I’m not excluded from that event or space, and I am quite within my rights to insist that me and my mates have a right to be there and hold a rowdy barbeque, it’s a public park, after all, and they can’t keep us out. The reason we don’t throw a barbecue, drink beer and play footy in the midst of the kids and their teddy bears is that it would be crass bad manners, and most people understand that without it needing to be explained.
*I am not arguing that lesbians are like small children, before you misinterpret the analogy.
Is your buddy’s band playing? And are you going to be doing anything different from the other adults?
Because if the answers are yes and no, why would it be bad manners? Go hear your buddy. If the other adults have beer coolers, bring one.
I didn’t realize the bachelor party was planning to play hacky sack all over the lesbians.
Straight guys aren’t the problem. The OP doesn’t know the whole party & there’s a chance it might include a few borderline homophobic, aggressive guys who have had far too much to drink. Perhaps you know the type.
What a funny thread! Sorry, I have nothing insightful or clever to add, I just want to say that this thread is a most amusing way to spend my morning. I’ve been to a gay bar or two and they’ve all been fun and easy going, I haven’t been to a lesbian what-ever and I didn’t realise they were as unaccommodating as they appear, here, so I won’t be going out of my way to go to one (not that they will be missing out, obviously).
No one has mentioned this, but the feelings of the stags should be taken into account, too. Just one militant lesbian could also wreck their night, what with the guys being on their ‘turf’ and they being drunk and obnoxious.
It always depresses me just how many people seem unable to see things from another perspective than their own: I never have any problems with something, so it must be like that for everybody.
Hmm, my first reaction is to say that you should book the show at a more perfect venue. But that’s obviously not always possible.
I’ve been booked in the “wrong” club before*, but nothing has gone horribly wrong, so none of them were one-offs, and we were always invited back. People usually behave themselves, and the ones likely to behave badly in a lesbian bar are more likely to behave badly in any bar where they see themselves as the in-group. If anything, knowing that they’re not on their “turf” usually makes people behave more carefully, IME.
*e.g. Hardcore punk band being booked in a Reggae, or a yuppie bar. Why were invited back? Beer sales are beer sales, very few bar owners deeply care who handed them the cash.