Dear beyondimagination07, I think you have misdiagnosed the problem. Your issue is not that he doesn’t want to marry you. It’s that you want to marry him.
One more data point. When I was 20, I was with a man whom I loved dearly, and he me, he showed that in everything that he did. However, he told me from the start that he didn’t want to marry me and that he didn’t want to have children. I was okay with that. After 18 good years together, I left him for other reasons (I was depressed at the time). Now he is a very good loyal friend to me and mine, as he has been for the last 25 years. I’m married and have a kid with my new husband. My ex is in a loving relationship, and* still* not married.
Like many men who don’t want to marry, he has skipped the “I’m over thirty and want a kid and be married NOW” age group and moved straight on to the “I had kids young so now in my late forties/early fifties I am a carefree young single grandmother who doesn’t need to marry either”-age group.
In other words, my ex also said he loved me and didn’t want to marry me. He was truthful on both counts, and he never changed his mind on both counts.
Also, watch “When Harry Met Sally.” I think you’ll probably relate to the scene where Sally calls up Harry crying, saying, "It wasn’t that he didn’t want to get married, he just didn’t want to get married to MEEEEEE!" 
We’ve been discussing the issue on and off via text and i brought up the “what if something happens to you, what happens to everything we built together”
and he said “that’s what wills are for”. Now I’m going to be more blunt with him.
You need to be really blunt. No more sweet discussions where he throws out excuses. Tell him “thats what cars are for”, then get in one and drive away while you still have a ounce of respect for yourself left.I know thos may not be what you want to hear, but anytime you discuss things, he will find a way tomanipulate, give excuses and get what he wants, (while explaining how he would like to give you what you need, ie security, name on house, counseling etc any time discussing with him is wasted time, he will dance around things with carefully worded excuses. I would be careful of his temper too and just leave. If he realizes what an ass hes been, he will make real changes.
Let me tell you, this excuse is BS. The questions on the form for a background check require someone to disclose mental health counseling unless it is for grief, combat stress, family, or marital issues.
That’s right: if you two get married, and then end up in counseling, he is under no obligation to disclose the marital counseling for the purposes of his background investigation. From his warped viewpoint, this should be a reason to get married…
Cite.
However, I think it is totally foolish to entertain the idea, “We need to go get couples counseling so that some day we can get married.” I mean, get real.
Once more, beyondimagination07, what’s the deal with children? Do you have any? Want some? Soon or later? Have you discussed it with him and what’s his opinion?
I’m sorry but there is no way this ends well for you.
He doesn’t need you as much as you need him. And he doesn’t need you as much as he needs his independence. If he needed you the way newly-married couples need each other, he’d move heaven and earth to make you happy… nothing would matter more than getting you to stay with him. He would put you on the house loan when you wanted him to, and he would get married because you want him to. Because those are worthwhile sacrifices when you NEED to be with your partner. He might be a genuinely good guy and a really great partner, he may love you, but you know what? You can do better. I promise you can find another genuinely good guy who’s a really great partner who loves you, who *doesn’t *have anger or depression issues or baggage about the institution of marriage.
You’re never going to be as happy with this guy as you could be with someone else. You can be happy with him, even very happy, but you will be *so much happier *with a man who shares your life goals. The longer you put off this breakup, the harder it’s going to become to find him.
Look… this is becoming almost cartoonish. He is not (so as you’ve described) a bad person, in fact he’s probably a better boyfriend than many, however if someone gives you the answer “that’s what wills are for” in a discussion with an SO about the necessity of marriage they are NOT confused. He does not want to be married to you.
Do you really, really want to know why? It’s not because he does not love you, you can easily love someone without wanting to marry them.
1: It’s because your relationship has been in place for almost a decade. You’re almost already like an old married couple. He loves you, but he is not “in love” with you or infatuated with you at this point. Marrying you would be like marrying a maid that he is very fond of.
2: I’m also going to bet he feels somewhat concerned by the lack of variety in relationships he has experienced to date. Unless you two have had an open relationship of some kind the entirety of your time together since you were 17 and 19 has been with each other. How many people other than each other have you both have sex or relationships with over the past 8 years? If he marries you those options are potentially locked out forever.
3: There is a fundamental power imbalance in your relationship, and I’m not talking about the relative cash spent on bills or house equity etc. What I’m speaking to is that you have made the choice to put yourself in a position where in exchange for being a dependable worker bee you are expecting that this will make him value and appreciate you, and that ultimately this will make him want to marry you. Sometimes it can work this way, but often it does not, and the challenging, erratic, high maintenance woman is the one that gets the ring. Men, especially young men don’t always want to marry the maid, or the solid girlfriend, or the worker bee.
You need to take the “wills” comment to heart. He does not want to marry you and there is nothing you can do about it re arguing further with him about what a great idea it is, and that somehow that will change his mind.
You need to stop throwing yourself at him. The only way you can test if he truly wants to be married to you is to leave him. Don’t be surprised if he chooses not to chase you.
My advice is book a holiday, don’t tell him. (Get a girlfriend to go with you if you like, but don’t tell him.) Tell him you need to talk, the night before you leave. Sit him down and tell him the truth. You need to get away and do some thinking, about how you feel regarding marriage and it’s importance and significance to you. Keep it short and sweet. When he presses you, ask him to leave it alone. Tell him you’re afraid, if pressed, it will come down to, “Step up or step Back!” Tell him the truth, it’s becoming increasingly hurtful that he remains unmoved about something you have gone to lengths to indicate the importance of. Go away to the beach for a week. Think about it, give him some time to think as well.
And I tell you this as a women who has been with my partner for 28yrs without getting wed. My name is not on the house, I pay none of the bills, he gets the bill for my credit card, though for most of those years, when we were renting, we split everything. It is amusing to find ourselves where we are. (to no one more than us, believe me.) We have outlasted most of the weddings we attended.
Where I live, I am his wife in every way, I inherit his pension, we can share income deductions, I would inherit from him, take the same tax deductions, make life ending decisions, donate his organs, even get half his stuff, including the house should we part, etc, etc.
We were both afraid of commitment, I thought walking down an aisle, taking on the mantles of 'husband/wife", would change everything, having been stewed in dysfunctional relationships while growing up. I was pretty certain it would be the kiss of death, to be honest. I think it was the right thing for us. I can relate to what you’re saying as there were times when I was feeling the same.
When you get back you’ll have a brighter outlook anyway. But I caution you whatever you decide to do. Be sure to embrace whatever you choose, the good and the bad. To keep this from being an ongoing and grating issue,creating resentment, you’ll need to remind your self that you had a choice, and this is what you chose. If you’re going to get passed this, it’s the only way.
No one is chaining you there, stay or go out and get what you want. You are not a tree.
We have talked about children before, and recently.
He and I both are in agreement that we may want kids some day, we’re both pretty sure one or two, and we both agree that not until we have quite a bit in savings, the house asbestos free, etc.
We seem to be on the same page as far as that’s concerned.
We talked a bit tonight and I think his concerns came out.
He said he was afraid of “the emotional trauma of going through a divorce if it doesn’t work out”.
He then told me he’d like us both to go to per-marital counseling together first.
“I’d like to at least go to some counseling first. What was that pre marriage thing [your mom] talked about?”
He’s still at work currently, but he said he wanted to talk to my mother about it when he got home (or sometime this week).
He said he’s afraid we may be in an abusive relationship and he’s the abuser (because he yells and has anger issues) and he is afraid of that and wants to talk to a couples counselor about that as well.
I think that’s a decent step forward and I’ll believe it when he takes the step to setup the counselor.
Until then, I’ll be doing some thinking of my own.
Please do some thinking on this. Not a single person on this thread knows the facts better than you. And everyone is bringing their own biases, failures and fears into the equation.
Really. Get a job and not because you want Christmas gifts. Put some money in your own account. Start thinking about living within your own means, not those of someone else.
Bolding mine: There will be no emotional difference between breaking up now or doing it after marriage. Either one would hurt terribly. If you were to split up now I would certainly consult a lawyer just to be safe.
I knew if you guys had a discussion he would manipulate and basically try to buy himself more time by making some token moves,with no substance behind. His offer to get some counseling now claiming that before he thinks about marriage he needs premarital counseling. Im sorry but he has had eight years to think…what is he STILL thinking about? Please realize his token offer of premarital counseling is something he is throwing out to appease you and the premarital counseling for him will probably he will I bet want to take his sweet ass time with. If he was really sincerely serious he would have gladly gone to counseling with you a long time ago. Imo at this late stage he is now saying he will as a means of biding his time,and he will want to make a lifetime career out of premarital counseling so if you want to stick this out til its painful demise I would make damm sure the premarital counseling has a time limit on it,and after,he needs to put up or shut up. Dont now become “engaged” for another eight years. Its time way past time,for him to stop bs"ing. He would to his credit make a great car salesman though
My God, Tollhouse, project much?
The OP’s boyfriend is not your ex-boyfriend, or whoever the hell you’re basing your comments on. You know almost nothing about this dude. Jumping to these giant conclusions on very little (and entirely one sided) information the way you have been makes you come across more than a little nuts.
As mentioned above, the emotional trauma is going to be the same no matter what. There is no easy way to break off eight years.
I think what he really means is all the other kinds of trouble that divorce brings, and he’s got a good point there. Right now, if you get “divorced,” he gets the house, and you get the debt. It couldn’t be cleaner. If you broke up after getting married, he’d probably owe some alimony to account for the fact that it’s your housekeeping that allows him to work eighty hour weeks. You’d have to figure out how to divide up the house, which would include any more sweat equity you put into it. You’d be offered COBRA if you are kicked off his health insurance…all kinds of stuff.
Pain in the ass, right? I can see why he’d want to avoid an expens…errrr…“traumatic” divorce.
I don’t think he’s a bad guy. There is nothing immoral about not wanting to commit, and it looks like he’s never lied to you outright.
But for the love of god be smart about your life. Get financially solvent. Get a cushion. Make sure you can stand on your own two feet before you start talking about building a family with anyone. Young, long relationships like this are risky in even the best of circumstances. And you’ve got a lot of warning signs to work with. You probably can’t be emotionally prepared to break up, and maybe it won’t come to that. But you NEED to be financially prepared, even if you’ve been married for decades.
I don’t know, secret vacations don’t exactly scream “I’m a trustworthy person who would make a great life partner!”
Beyondimagination07, I have 2 questions that might help clear up some of the vagueness and randomness of the advice in this thread.
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What is your experience with dating other people as an adult? What is your boyfriend’s experience? As other people have pointed out, if you two have pretty much only dated each other for your entire adult lives, that can leave a guy wondering what else is out there.
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What is your personal economic situation. If your boyfriend and you broke up and he completely cut you off financially, would you be able to support yourself?
Secretary of evil, if you read the thread I am hardly the only one who feels strongly about hiis mistreatment of her…even the OP herself has expressed alot of concern for different behaviors of his
I don’t agree with you either, Tollhouse. The boyfriend doesn’t sound live evil incarnate to me - he sounds very conflicted, which is pretty normal for a 28 year old who is facing the biggest decisions of his life. I think beyond is doing the right things, and asking the right questions - this isn’t easy or simple for either of them.
I think she needs to get her finances in order, and make sure hers are separated from her boyfriend’s so she doesn’t get left high and dry (and no, wills are not enough for that). I think she needs to keep talking and discussing things with him, and go see a counsellor on her own if he keeps putting it off. I think she needs to keep on being honest with herself and keep pushing for what she truly wants and needs.