I thought of Dench when I formed the opinion about Williams. I thought her award was unjustified though I was not terribly upset as she already had a nice body of work.
[sub]And according to this thread, she apparently once had a nice body.[/sub]
I guess the upside to this nomination is that Oscar usually is more willing to honor over the top roles (like Dench’s Queen Elizabeth) and ignore subtle material (like Williams).
Maybe I am just shocked that someone from Dawson’s Creek got an Oscar nod.
Women in Wyoming gained full voting rights in 1869; in Utah in 1870; in the state of Washington in 1883; in Colorado in 1893; in Idaho in 1896; in Oregon, Arizona, Kansas, and Alaska in 1912; Nevada and Montana in 1914.
Nevada elected Jeanette Rankin, the first woman in Congress, in 1917. Nellie Taylor Ross of Wyoming became the first woman elected governor of a state, in 1924. Hattie Wyatt Caraway of Arkansas became the first woman elected to the U.S. Senate, in 1932.
Meanwhile, women in the state of New York weren’t given voting rights until 1917, and in Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, and all the other east coast states in 1920, only after the Nineteenth Amendment was ratified.
What I liked about this scene was how clearly it showed Ennis’s inability to understand his own feelings. Jack took it in stride that their summer was being cut short. Ennis was devastated that their time together was coming to an abrupt end. He was angry, but wouldn’t allow himself to admit why he was angry. The fight was him lashing out at the world, while at the same time lashing out at Jack for making him feel this way; for bringing him to a place where the end of a sheepherding job could bring the universe crashing down around his ears. THe feeling that culminated in the alley, with the retching and the tears and the pounding of the all, began in that moment, leading up to the fight, when Ennis learned it was all over.
True that. Very possibly only other closeted gay guys (which I’m not now but was on and off for years) can relate to the horror of the feelings you have to internalize. I went through an extremely painful breakup with my boyfriend when I was in my early 20s but at the time I wasn’t out to any of my family or even most of my friends (Alabama in the late 80s was less than 20 years ago but a different world in terms of gay visibility and acceptance) and it just tears you up when you can’t express how you’re feeling because officially no relationship exists (not if you value your employment or your circle of friends). Ennis being a quiet and solo person by nature anyway that whole scene was wrenching.
Disclaimer: This queery’s query is asked as a matter of curiosity and I do not intend to debate or chastise in any other way take to task anybody who answers and will in fact be very appreciative of their participation and honesty. I would request other gay or gayish or gay-sympathiser Dopers do likewise.
For the (mostly male &) STRAIGHT DOPERS who were made uncomfortable by the love scenes in this movie (and presumably other gay movies), which made you more uncomfortable-
1- the scene in the pup tent (sexually graphic but not what you’d call romantic)
or
2- the scene where Ennis cuddles Jack and kisses him and says “see you tomorrow”
or
3- the passionate kiss (that according to rumor broke Jake G’s nose) when Ennis and Jack meet again after four years apart
I’m curious if you’re more bothered by sex or by intimacy or exactly what. Again- I promise not to attack or judge (so long as you’re respectful [i.e. no ‘fags’ or ‘abominations’ in your response]).
I just saw BBM the other day, and a guy walked out not in the tent scene, but in the kissing scene. Whatever.
You gotta wonder why he’s there in the first place? and why not walk out at the tent scene? unless he was assuming that the tent incident would prove to actually be a “one shot deal,” and both men would spend the rest of the film atoning for it or something. The violent anal sex this guy could handle; the kissing sent him running.
Yes; there will always be the Stubborn Ignorant. No matter how enlightened the society becomes as a whole, there will always be the KKK and Fred Phelps. Still, when faced with individual examples in real life, you can’t help but feel disappointed.
You know, ultimately, that’s what makes this a great movie, and also not a “gay movie.” It was about the people more than about the situation. Sure, the situation informed the actions of the people. But BBM is more about Ennis’s shut-down nature than it is about his homosexuality. Ennis would have been the same way if he were straight, the difference being there wouldn’t have been the added cultural burden that actually enabled his difficulty in expressing himself. Imagine the twisted contradiction he was living: he felt something he wanted to express, but his family history limited his “learned” skills in doing so. Still, if he’d felt that passion for a woman, he might have someday been able to grow through it. The culture he lived in, however, brutally prevented him from doing so. The scene near the end, the “I wish I knew how to quit you” scene, is more of the same. He’s trying to break things off with Jack because, even after 20 years, the time between their fishing trips is just too painful. The recovery he has to survive after each visit just destroys him over and over and over. That’s the evil of the culture than imposes that burden on Ennis.
That’s what infuriates me about critics like Medved who condemn Ennis and Jack for the collateral damage they cause. Their “false” marriages, etc. It’s the culture that Medved supports that causes this! Ennis and Jack are just doing what they’re told. They’re doing what Medved’s culture demands of them. CAn’t the Christian right, with their “former gay” reeducation camps, see the damage that THEY are causing?
That’s too bad. When I saw it locally, there were only 15-20 people in the theater and they all seemed to really want to be there. I didn’t here any snickers or chuckles or “icks!”
But as soon as Jack died, there was sniffling heard all over the theater, all the way to the end.
The two little old ladies sitting nearby in my row were a mess, bless their hearts.
What about Sylvia Miles, who was nominated for Best Supporting Actress after being in Midnight Cowboy for a total of something like 6 minutes. Isn’t that still the record for shortest screen time to be nominated?
By way of comparison, William H. Macy had more screen time in Fargo than Frances McDormand, but was only nominated for Best Supporting Actor, while she won Best Actress.
To answer Sampiro, though:
As a straight man, I had no problem with the kissing, sex scenes, or anything remotely, for lack of a better term, gay. In fact, it bothered me more to see them pretending (especially on Jack’s part) to be straight. Then again, I was still thinking of Anne Hathaway in full Princess Diaries mode, despite having seen her in Havoc.
Then again, I’m among the most liberal people that people that know me have ever found. I’m comfortable enough in my sexuality to not feel “threatened” (for lack of a better term) by a gay romance. So comfortable, in fact, that a friend of mine’s gay circle of friends refers to me as “Big Gay Kev.”
I must confess I felt a bit like this when I saw it last Thursday. I had read/heard so much about how it was so moving, and for the majority of the film I kept waiting for the big emotional scenes. And then the “I wish I could quit you” fight happened and I bawled off and on for the rest of the film (highlights include the “sleeping like a horse” flashback, Ennis finding out that Jack started a relationship with the bearded guy, Ennis finding the shirts, Ennis’s conversation with his daughter, and the final scene with the shirts and “Jack, I swear”).
Other than the “sleeping like a horse” flashback with Jack, I think the only other times we see Ennis completely comfortable with himself is in his interactions with his daughters. He seems like a pretty good father. He gets in a fight on the 4th of July to keep some vulgar men away from his kids, he’s always tender with his daughters, he doesn’t sacrifice his visitation with his daughters or his child support obligations to go run off with Jack, he and Alma Jr. seem to have an understanding with respect to the new girlfriend, and the final scene shows how he hopes Alma Jr. will have a better relationship than Alma and Ennis did. Also, which I don’t think anyone pointed out, at the end of the movie he saves Alma Jr.'s sweater, much like Jack saved his own shirt from Brokeback.