Brokeback Mountain (OPEN SPOILERS)

Cafe Society
141

There is nothing in the film to even suggest that Jack is a “sexual predator.” Jack is portayed as making the first move, is the one who first initiates further contact with Ennis a few years after their first experience on Brokeback (by sending him a postcard), and is the only one who is ever shown pursuing other men, but the first two items are conventions of any love story. (If a woman makes the first move or pursues a relationship later is she a “sexual predator?”) and Jack’s occasional trysts with other men (one is a prostitute) are not depicted as pedatory but as emotionally needy. He’s filling the hole left by his separation from Ennis.

I think Shalit is projecting some sort of weird idea that Ennis wouldn’t be gay if it wasn’t for stupid, sexy Jack always seducing him all the time.

142

Would you believe this film doesn’t reach Perth until January 26th?

Everyone not living in the arse end of the world will be over it by the time it comes out here :frowning:

143

Oh, look, 1000th post. That was fast. I wish I had something to add to this discussion. I hate having to watch people talk about movies I want to see. le sad

144

I really enjoyed this film, though I thought it was a little too long, and drug in a few places.

That said, I have a few questions. Only one about the relationship, though.

It seemed to me that Jack took a big leap of faith in making the move on Ennis in the tent. Maybe it explores this issue more in the story, but how was he sure that Ennis would reciprocate instead of rejecting him? It seemed to go from Ennis coming in the tent (to keep warm) to Jack’s holding his hand. Was there some subtlety that I missed?

Also, what the hell was the point of dragging the sheep up to the top of the mountain for the summer? Were they not able to graze anywhere else? Was it an attempt to thicken up their wool (assuming such a thing is even possible…I know nothing about sheep)?

It would have been a nice touch to even mention that last, even in passing.

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  1. I don’t think you missed anything. I have the story at home and have read it several times. Actually, when Jack is erect, he takes Ennis’s hand and guides it to his privates (this is mentioned in the story, though you can barely see anything in the dark tent scene); and Ennis winds up taking control of things. There is no mention of anything sexual, subtle or otherwise, leading up to this encounter. What you see in the movie is exactly what’s in the story: talking, singing, drinking, eating, sheep-herding, etc.

  2. I’m wondering about this too. Is the grass better for sheep at higher elevations? Is there not enough room for the large herd of sheep on lower ground due to space limitations, property lines, ?
    Any sheep specialists out there?

146

IANAsheep herder, but I’ll make three guesses:

The rancher’s land only runs up & down the mountain, so he really doesn’t have a choice. He leads the sheep up the mountain in summer because it’s warm enough for grass to grow up there, then leads them back down the mountain as the weather gets colder, so they can graze on grass while it’s still comparatively warmer at the lower elevations.

If the weather’s colder up the mountain, the sheep grow thicker fur, faster?

Lastly, predation? I don’t know if wolves were a problem in the 60’s, but if they were, maybe they don’t bother following the flock up the mountain because there’s abundant game at the lower elevations (or other ranchers’ sheep)?

147

I know very little about the apparently very complex world of federal grazing rights, but my assumption was that the grounds to which the sheep were herded were federal lands on which the sheep owners had grazing rights, but only under particular circumstances. One of those circumstances being that wolves, coyotes or other predators in the same area were protected species. Which is why the Randy Quaid character wanted someone to sleep outside the designated campground area but leave no trace that he had done so.

148

Finally got to see this. I loved it. I thought it was incredibly beautiful - both in terms of the story and the visuals, and moving. So, so sad though. As much as I loved it, I don’t know if I could watch it again - it affected me so deeply.

All the performances were outstanding, but Heath Ledger was phenomenal.

149

I only just realised the significance of the shirts. When they come down from Brokeback for the first time, Ennis says “I can’t believe I left my damn shirt up there”. Jack had taken it and kept with his own all those years.[

Arrgh. I seriously almost wish I hadn’t seen it, it’s made me so sad and now I can’t stop thinking about it.

150

My wife and I saw the movie last night. We thought it was well-made and very thought-provoking. It did a good job of showing that love is more about people and less about genders.

Given that this is a rather conservative area, it was not too surprising that the theater was not even one-third-full during the Saturday evening viewing we attended. But, I was dismayed when about a dozen people got up and left the theater during the tent scene. Restoring some humor to this depressing turn of events was a woman that yelled out “Goodbye!” to them in a snarky tone as they passed her on the way out…eliciting supportive laughter and more “good-byes” and “don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out” comments from most of the rest of the audience (the last comment being especially funny given the context of the event). I’ve never seen people leave a movie like this before. How could so many people attend this movie after all the reviews of it and not know that it contains such “sensitive” material??? Did these folks really think that this was just a touching story about some tough cowboys that became good buddies? Would they have been more comfortable if the characters had been passionate with the sheep instead of each other?

151

I saw the movie last night and absolutely loved it. I don’t always cry at movies, but I was seriously leaking by the end. It was one of the saddest movies I’d seen in a long time.

Also, for when my Oscar bets come up, most of my money will be on whatever Brokeback Mountain is up for. It was superb, and while many great movies came out this year, Brokeback Mountain is definitely the one to beat.

Also thought that y’all would like to know that I go to Texas A&M and went to see BM at the movie theater in College Station. We went to the 6:50 show on Sunday evening, not the busiest time to see movies here, so I thought the movie would be mostly empty. Suprisingly, the theater was about half full. So if this movie can play well in College Station, it seems like it can do pretty well everywhere.

152

I have to admit that I was pretty shocked when my best friend and I walked into the theater about 7 mins past the scheduled start time to find it almost completely full on a Saturday at 3pm. We took our seats (in the 2nd row, Holy ginormous screen, batman) I was more than a bit shocked to see the diversity in the audience. There were a lot of middle-aged women, groups of younger (highschool/early college) kids, older couples, etc.

There were a few gasps and some giggles (generally from girls in luuuurve with Heath and/or Jake) during the initial sexual encounter, but by the end of the movie there was hardly a dry eye in the theater.

I also admit that I was one of those people who felt it was a bit longer than it should’ve been, but in fairness I was very hungry and expecting a self-important indie film where everyone says, “OMGTHECINEMATOGRAPHYWASFAAAABULOUS” while I’m still trying to figure out why the lead character stuck their head in an oven.

The movie, however, was truly beautiful. I was able to easily empathize and relate to the main characters, despite the fact that I am neither male nor gay. That their passion and tragedy felt completely accessable makes me feel a little weird about categorizing it strictly as a “gay film”. It was certainly about two men who fall in love. I would say that they were gay. But I didn’t feel like that was so much the point of the movie. I felt like the point of the movie was (as more than one person has mentioned in this thread) how tragic shame and repression can be and the ripple of consequences that come from denying your heart. I love that it showed not only how much pain the two lead characters go through as a result of fear and societal pressure, but how much pain everyone around them goes through with them. My heart broke for Ennis’ older daughter during much of the film just as my heart broke for both Ennis and Jack on an almost continual basis.

I also absolutely understood why Ennis’ wife never says anything. I honestly don’t know who would given the size of the town they were in and the era in which this film was set. She had to know that if anyone found out, there would always be gossip and long stares and that her childrens lives would be affected and that people would always wonder what she didn’t do for him as a wife that would’ve “turned him into a queer”. Between her fear, shame and hope for him to turn around and be the husband she wanted him to be… I was only surprised that she did finally divorce him.

I love that there aren’t really any true heros or villains in this movie, outside of the portrayal of an unaccepting and sometimes outright cruel society.

I will definitely be seeing this film again, and would wholey reccommend it to anyone who appreciates emotional film.

My only true complaint (if you can even call it that) with the movie is that it left me with the same hollow rage that I felt after viewing American History X. I appreciate being moved by a film, but as with AHX, I’m guessing this overwhelming sense of shame at how counter-productive that we as humans can sometimes be is going to follow me around for a couple of weeks. :confused:

153

Last night, I dreamed that someone gave me a copy of BBM on DVD.

Possibly, this happened because I had read that it could be released that way as early as March 7–though I’m not sure of the accuracy of the source.

154

I completely agree with this. I read the story before seeing the movie and, of course, had read reviews and whatnot beforehand too, but seeing that Ennis and Alma were happy (the sledding scene, for instance) and were fairly good partners (taking care of the sick kids) before Jack came back into Ennis’s life made it all the more poignant to me.

And I agree that it’s obvious why Alma didn’t say anything for so long, too. It must have taken a lot of courage for her to finally leave Ennis, and I guess she waited till she knew her boss at the grocery would step up to the plate before she left. I had to remind myself she was not a well-educated woman with a decent job, like me and, lets be honest, when you have kids together, it’s frightening to rock the boat no matter what your circumstances.

For me, Jack’s story was sort of a sub-plot - much of it was added or embellished from the original story. It was all about Ennis, IMO.

On the other hand, I did wish it could have been easier for Ennis and Jack. In their last time together, you could see how happy and comfortable they were in each other’s presence, like an old married couple, until the big argument, anyway.

155

Probably, the film-makers wanted technical advice from people who both know what they’re doing, and wouldn’t have a problem with the content of the movie.

156

I’m disappointed to see how many people are dismissing those of us who didn’t like the film as homophobic or incapable of appreciating a film more sophisticated than a Vin Diesel vehicle. Believe me, it’s quite possible to be neither, and still hate Brokeback Mountain.

In any story of Forbidden Love, I think it’s a given that as a viewer I should be rooting for the pair to overcome all obstacles, and consider it sad if for whatever reason they can’t. Instead, I wanted to slap both men up alongside the head for marrying women they had some rather strong indications they weren’t going to be happy with and cheating on their spouses, find Jack a nice boy to spend his life with, and get Ennis some therapy and elocution lessons ASAP. I felt far too little sense of tenderness or connection between them, and even less sense that sex between them was much beyond physical release. I kept wishing for additional sexually frank scenes that showed some sense of trust or love or some emotional connection. As it was, what little sex we did see was so violence tinged that even the subsequent sweet “You’re asleep on your feet like a horse” scene and the like weren’t enough to overcome it. I certainly have no interest in watching a pair of Perfect Lovers, but they were sufficiently unsympathetic that I certainly couldn’t root for them to be together. Couldn’t root for them to stay with their clearly unhappy wives either.

The pacing? I’m all for a movie taking its time if that time is needed, but glaciers move faster than this movie progressed and I don’t see much reason for it.

157

It was a beautiful movie, but I think I need to see it a second time to fully appreciate it.

158

You’ll be glad you did. There are so many little bits that passed me by and I only noticed them during my second viewing. Quiet, lovely or heatbreaking little moments that add to the feeling, mood, and atmosphere. Subtle touches, glances, bits of dialogue, flashes of insight, snatches of music, they all contribute to the richness and depth of the film.

I agree that it is a beautiful movie, and I’m looking forward to a 3rd viewing. I’m so happy it won the 4 Golden Globes it did (Picture, Director, Song and Screenplay) and I’m convinced that it will go on to win the Best Picture Oscar.

159

It fascinates me that people have gone back as many as six times.
I do plan to go again–maybe not half a dozen trips, but at least a couple.
It’s resonating with a lot of viewers.

160

Well put. Were the shoe on the other foot, and so called mindreaders who didn’t like the film accused the people who did of being patronizing, the shit would hit the proverbial fan. For a better ‘forbidden love’ tale, I’ll re-endorse Ang Lee’s 1993 film Hsi Yen (The Wedding Banquet).