<b>bobkitty</b> I agree with you 100%. That sexy look that Spike gives…mmm mmm mmm. ::drools::
Next week’s episode looks mighty interesting…I really can’t wait to see it. It’s going to be a loooooooong week.
-Mila
Ya know, I thought the episode was good, but I have to question all this Spike-ism. I mean, how does he get this Big Bad rep. He’s a dolt. He’s a twerp. Yes, he’s killed two slayers, but I fail to see how. Since the first episode he was in, I’ve expected him to break into a Gomer Pyle voice at any moment.
He’s not tough. He’s not particularly bad. He’s certainly never been convincingly evil (you’d think after all that time with Angelis he’d have at least picked THAT up). He’s never really been anything more than comic relief, IMHO.
Fire away.
Well, he may have been comic belief as the Eeeeevvvviiiiiillllll Vampire, but I think the writers are trying to let him actually grow as a character. Besides, I thought he was delightfully horrible in the season 4 Buffy/Angel crossover dealing with the Gem.
He himself admitted the fact that the only reason he killed 2 slayers is because part of them wanted it. They wanted to know what death was like, and so some deep part of them let him win.
I don’t understand why we are expected to accept Anya (the ex-demon who never regretted torturing and maiming people, who was actually proud of it, and eagerly accepted her powers back) but we’re supposed to hate Spike because he what? Is basically exactly like Anya?
As long as she’s pretty and fucks Xander, we love Demons. But if he’s pretty and fucks Buffy, we hate demons.
I don’t understand the double standard.
Furthermore, I don’t understand why people still think he’s eeeevvvviiiiilllllll. What did he do when he had his “one good day”? He cried like a little girl. What did he do after Buffy died? Babysat her little sister. What does he do every time the SG needs his help? Fight demons.
Everything is so bloody black and white to some people. That drives me crazy…Spike is a grey character right now, but I think he’s getting closer “to white”. Of course, I may speaking too soon, since I’ve read some rather not happy spoilers…but we’ll wait and see.
No, no… I was at school, after class, and we pretended we needed to work on our final presentation so we could stay in the room with the cable hookup. I’m supposed to be receiving UPN and WB, but apparently our satellite people love everyone but me. Mayhaps the move will put some marzipan in their pieplate, bingo.
You’re still my BuffyPimp, sweetums. You know I loves you, right? 
I think the writers have been pretty clearly painting her as, at best, a self-centered doof, and at worst, an unrepentant vengeance demon. Spike, on the other hand, is clearly a sympathetic character.
But the vast majority of the fans who hate Spike don’t seem to have a problem with Anya. That’s what I’m confused about.
I don’t spend much time in Buffy fandom, so I’ll have to defer to your expertise on this one. But all the people I know hate Anya (or are at least overly amused when she does something stupid and/or dangerous) and love Spike (mostly in a manly way, that is).
Me, I dislike her a tad (were I a Scooby, she’d be the one I didn’t bother hanging out with one-on-one). Of course, I’d still ride her like a Harley through Death Valley.
And Spike is, luckily, voiced by James Marsters, who is easily the most underrated actor on television today, and had the best song in the musical ep, so him I can deal with.
I think that like Buffy verse folk the fans are really soul centered. If you have a soul wahoo for you. If not you are wrong and evil and nasty. But as Holtz pointed out so what if they have a soul? Doesn’t make them a saint. Likewise as the Judge demonstrated you can be tainted with humanity without having a soul.
Anya has a soul. Spike does not. The is the difference. Since the show keeps focusing on soul/no soul the fans have picked up on it and developed an appropriate bias as the result.
Drusilla is still the best. Spike is just a pansy compared to her.
I, for one, do not think that either character is truly likable. In fact, I thought it was foolish of Xander to develop a romantic attachment toward Anya, precisely because she WAS a recently transformed demon who showed no signs of outright repentance. Ditto for Spike. His behavior may have been reined in by the chip, but he was still a murderer at heart.
To her credit though, Anya did seem to have abandoned her bloody ways, whereas Spike did not. Now one might argue that Anya had been divested of her mystic might, and with that I would agree. However, Anya did appear to have lost her vicious bloodthirst, while Spike’s violent streak and disregard for human life remained.
Is this canonical? Have they ever said “Anya has a soul” or had something happen that would indicate that she did? Legit question here – I have a far from perfect memory.
For that matter, did Spike ever do his demon-detector chip trick on Anya, intentionally or otherwise, between her vengeance-demon gigs?
'Cause I’m thinking that a soul would be a real liability for a vengeance demon, and it wouldn’t necessarily come flying back just because she lost her powers. I would think.
This has probably been discussed ad infinitum elsewhere, so apologies if the answer has already been ruled on.
You were listening to all the things she wanted to do to Xander, and would have if she could have wished it herself?
Sometimes I wished we saw the previews for next week in Canada.
But then I wise up and realize how much more exciting it is to not know anything about what’s going to happen!
First, I would like to tell Skydive101 that that link was worthless. I absolutely loath those fan boards because they have a thousand different threads that say the same thing - and yet somehow manage to say nothing at all. I searched high and low and had no idea where to look for the pic you indicated.
Otherwise, Xander and Anya’s relationship was always a joke in my book - they only liked eachother because they were the only ones who would put out for eachother. And Anya’s too much of a charicature to be believabe as a person (nothing wrong with the acting, just how she’s written).
As for Spike … the dude is just plain evel.
I like that. 
As far as the soul/no soul thing goes, it seems that, by definition, a vengence demon would not have a soul. I don’t know that they’ve ever addressed it as far as Anya goes, but if I had to guess I’d say her soul was traded for her powers. And then what about Dawn? She’s the key in human form, but was a soul included in the package along with the false memories?
unrelated question–does anyone know if they are planning to re-run the musical ep? I missed it the first time through and still haven’t forgiven myself.
bella
Well, Anya did become human. In the Buffy-verse, I’d be willing to argue that becoming human would result in the character gaining a soul.
The problem that I have with the Spike–bad/Anya–good dichotomy is this; both Anya and Spike have hurt the scoobies in the past. Both of them have, actually, tried to KILL at least one of them. (Anya tried to kill Willow, and in the AU attacked Giles, though he wouldn’t remember it). So arguing that one is good and the other is bad simply because one is human is simply not true.
Then there’s the “well, if vampires can become good, then Buffy’s a murderer” argument. If demons can become human, then Buffy’s still a murderer under this argument.
I also have the feeling that everyone EXCEPT Xander would probably accept Spike/Buffy fairly quickly. I mean, Tara did, and I can see Willow doing so, too. Dawn herself had a crush on Spike. And, hell, Giles accepted Angel.
Thing is, though. . .Spike isn’t “good” yet. If he were, he wouldn’t have tried to manipulate Buffy the way that he did. Despite his noble actions, he still doesn’t seem to grasp that other people are emotional creatures, and that manipulating them to get what he wants is wrong.
Interesting point, though–Spike says that he never would’ve done what Xander did. I wonder how that places them relative each other. . .
I’m sure they’ll rerun the musical ep - about as often as they rerun Hush.
FWIW, I, and probably a majority of the Buffy fans on the SDMB, have the musical ep on tape. If you don’t mind waiting a few weeks (I’m moving), I’ll be sure to copy it for ya. (Mental note: Find Buffy tape…)
Gorgon- that link worked for me. Actually, I was popping in here to thank Sky for it. FWIW, the link claims UPN released the photos, so you may want to check on the official site.
And all I can say about the other stuff in Sky’s post… BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! How stupid do these writers think we are? Sheesh.
-BK
I had the same problem. But re-read Sky’s post:
After you’ve registered, just go back to Sky’s post and click that link one more time. It’ll take you right to the page.
Duuuuuuhhhh … [drool]