Buffy 5/7

Cafe Society
101

Soooooooo…

Is Willow going to take Holfernes up on that Vengence Demon job? Seems that if she was going to do it, now would be the time, assuming she still has the amulet she gave her (What, she’s supposed to drop it in a payphone and dial 666?)

I haven’t seen much of the show- mostly parts of seasons 34 on FX, but I kind of like Anya. I like watching her trying to learn how to have human relationships, especially a romantic one, after, what, 1200 or so years of being a Vengeance Demon. So far, she seems pretty selfish and self-preservational, but will come through for the Scoobies if Xander’s ass (and her piece thereof) is on the line.

The “convesational indescretion” jokes are getting a bit stale, though.

102

I maintain there is a difference between “dodging” and “ducking.”

Now, I know pretty much nothing about weapons, so all of my numbers are made up. Let’s say a machine gun can fire one round per second (I think that they fire faster but we’ll say one per second). That’s 60 chunks of metal a minute flying at Buffy at, what, the speed of sound or so? Now multiply it by 10. That’s 600 chunks of metal a minute. Now let’s have her jump vertically through 600 chunks of metal and see how many hit her. Answer: a lot.

I agree, the show is not about killing Buffy. That’s not the point I was trying to make, either here or the last time it came up.

103

I don’t think she has to. She seems powerful enough to wreak whatever vengeance and/or havoc she wants all on her own without becoming a demon to do it. Besides, that would make the third female in the Buffyverse this season to become part demon (including Anya and Cordelia). As for contacting D’Hofren with the amulet, I imagine all she would have to do is wish for it. His demonesses do have the power of the wish after all.

104

To be fair, Whedon & Co. have addressed the “why don’t the vampires just shoot Buffy?” issue, at least indirectly.
On more than a few occasions, there’s been a little speech about how demons (1) are just damned old-fashioned, and (2) (a bit more relevant) how there is a balance between forces of good and evil, and how the use of modern weapons (a la The Initiative) disrupt that balance. Demons adhere to (and in a way, need) that balance (think of Angel when he went to the “head office”).
I think the Darla and the guns business was the aberration - it was Season 1, and I doubt Whedon had thought out all the rules yet.

OTOH, it makes sense that Warren, as a human, would use a gun.

Sua

105

Er, if you say so. I don’t see it, myself. Also, you vastly underestimate the rate of fire of automatic weapons. I’m no gun nut myself, but most modern firearms can empty their clips in two or three seconds. However, I think Slayer speed and reflexes would make Buffy extremely hard to hit if she’s even half-expecting a fight. Which, last episode, she wasn’t.

Now, if you want to talk sniper rifles, then you’ve got an argument. But I agree with Sua: demons just don’t like technology, and would rather pass up the benefits of technology for the pleasures of tooth and claw. And, let’s face it, the two most common traits in demons (especially vampires) are “dumb” and “overconfident.”

106

For my two cents’ worth, the impression I got from Warren just grabbing a gun and opening fire was very much like an Indiana Jones move - everyone else is doing karate kicks and posturing, and he just takes out his gun and ends the fight. That was the feeling I got from Warren’s actions - he was just tired of fooling around. And mad - very, very mad. I don’t think gun owners should be reading any more into that scene than that. He was mad, he grabbed the first thing he could get his hands on (Freudian slip there - I typed “get his nads on” first! :eek:). Tell me that isn’t like real life and crimes of passion. I dare ya.

(Oh, and I have this lovely little fantasy where Dawn has to sacrifice her life essence back into Buffy so that Buffy can recover from the gunshot. {heavy sigh})

107

I got no problem with “mad.” In either sense (even though I didn’t really get the “he’s finally snapped” vibe that others apparently got from this episode). What I have a problem with is that he picked up the gun and immediately turned from Long-Term Plan Guy into Stupid Gun Guy.
He didn’t shoot the Slayer from hiding.
He didn’t shoot the Slayer in the back.
He didn’t shoot the Slayer before she had a chance to respond.
He didn’t even shoot the Slayer while retreating.
He shot the Slayer without looking, while running away, after ranting at her first.
That is not what I expect from Warren. It’s what I expect from a moron and/or a crackhead. It was bad writing, and it offended me on behalf of all Evil Geniuses, because it made us look bad.

108

Warren’s actions would have better befitted a total moron, but I wonder if he didn’t go into the backyard with a dramatic face-to-face confrontation in mind. Given the Trio’s pop-culture fixations, I wouldn’t be surprised if he had seen, say, Pulp Fiction one too many times and decided his rage needed to be vented with an appropriate speech.

109

I’m sorry I wasn’t able to post to this thread last week (modem troubles!), but I hope it’s not too late to comment on this:

With all due respect, I think you may be overestimating Warren’s skill at Long Term Planning. I have no doubt that he sees himself as some kind of Master Planner. The Master Plans we hear about, of course, are huge, grandiose schemes that any Bond villain would envy. The ones we actually see, not so much.

Consider: He gets the power to control people’s minds. How does he use it? To make his ex-girlfriend into a love slave. Petty. And incompetent, in that he does this by abducting her (a woman he is known to have a connection with) from a crowded bar just full of potential witnesses. In fact, if not for the plot contrivance that the Sunnydale P.D. can’t solve any crime, the cops should have been banging down his door the very next day after they found Katrina’s body.

He gets the power to turn invisible. How does he use it? To sneak into a gym so he can see women naked. Petty. (Granted, it turned into a plot to kill Buffy, but only by accident).

He gets massive strength and invulnerability. What’s the first thing he does? He goes to get revenge on a bully who picked on him in high school. Petty. Warren fancies himself an evil genius, but he’s really just a twisted, pathetic little man.

So now his scheme has failed. His partners are both in custody, and Buffy has humiliated him. To me, it makes perfect sense that he would grab a gun and try to shoot her. This wasn’t “guns make a criminal genius into a trigger-happy idiot.” It was “sad, pathetic loser mis-uses a gun to make himself tough.”

110

MrAtoz just summed up my feelings on the episode better than I could.

111

Could someone do me a favor and post a brief summary of the episode? I was out of the country and have seen the previous week (on tape) and have this week on tape, but missed 5/7.

Thanks in advance.

112

Anyone? I’d love to have a basic idea of what happened other than Tara was offed and Spike beat up Buffy. I’m going to watch the 5/14 episode on tape tonight and I need context, please.

113

Okay, quick and dirty:
It opens with Buffy finding the Geek lair and stealing a bunch of their plans before narrowly escaping an unlikely death trap involving giant buzzsaws. Meanwhile, the Geek Trio find a pair of magical sphere that make anyone holding them super-strong and invulnerable. Warren takes them both and goes to pick up girls in bars and beat up his former bullies. Tara shows up at Willow’s and they reconcile and end up in bed, where they spend most of the episode, alternetly hacking into the Geek files and screwing like rabbits. Buffy goes to Xander’s place, and they fight about her sleeping with Spike.

Warren runs into Xander, and pounds him bloody (I think he was going to kill him, but Jonathan reminds him of “that thing we were going to do” and they leave) Meanwhile, Spike shows up at Buffy’s to apoligize for hurting her feelings when he outed their relationship. He tries to talk Buffy into sleeping with him again, and ends up trying to rape her. She forces him off, and he flees (my take was that he looked shocked and guilty over what he had done, but as you can see, there’s some discussion over this point) Tara and Willow have figured out Warren’s plan, and Buffy goes to stop him. Spike, back at his lair with Clem (the saggy-baggy demon), is consumed with guilt. He decides that it’s the chip that is the source of all of his problems, and heads out on his motorcycle to find someone who can remove it.

Buffy finds Warren and Co. robbing an armored car. She tries to stop him, but the spheres make him too strong, and he starts kicking her ass. Jonathan prentends to jump her, but whispers about the magic spheres into her ear. She rips them off his belt and smashes them, then puts the beat-down on Warren, who escapes via jet pack. Andrew also has a jet pack, but forgets to check his head room and knocks himself out by flying into an overhang. Jonathan has no jet pack, and is surprised that the other two do.

Back at her house, Buffy and Xander are reconciling after their fight earlier when Warren shows up, ranting and waving a gun. He fires wildly, hitting Buffy. Another bullet goes through an upstairs windows, hitting in the back and going through her heart, splattering Willow with blood. The End.

I’ve probably missed something, but that’s the general gist.

114

BTW, where can I get one of those jetpacks? And a Buffybot too, while we’re at it. I want to try selling them on Ebay.

115

Thanks, I watched the ep today and feel pretty much caught up. Now if I can only find someone to fill me in on the missing ep of Angel and West Wing…

116

Well… which Angel episode was it?

117

The one where Conner/Steven comes back, 5/6. I saw the previous show, where Conner pops out at the end and immediately knew who it was.

Since I’ve now seen the 5/13 episode I guess several things have happened, including Lyla offering Weslie a job at W & H and Holtz coming back as well. I missed Angel and Conner meeting up.

I’m caught up, but some details on the backstory would be good.

118

Okay, it’ll be a little fuzzy, since it’s been a week or so, but…

Connor shows up and immediatly tries to kill Angel, and almost succeeds. He smacks the rest of the group around a bit, then runs off. Gunn and Fred head out to look for him overland, Angel goes through the sewers (it’s daytime) and Cordy and Groo stay beind to guard the still-open portal while Lorne looks up an old friend to seal it.

Connor finds a girl trying to get a fix from her dealer and his goons, who starts slapping her around. Connor intercedes, beats the crap out of the goons, and cuts off the dealer’s ear as a trophy. The girl leads Connor to an abandoned apartment where they start to get intimate. Before they do more than kiss, she excuses herself and goes into the bathroom to shoot up.

Meanwhile, Cordy and Groo are rendered unconscious by some sort of energy blast from the portal. They wake up when Lorne arrives with an odd blue-haired woman with a tendency to randomly teleport. She closes the portal, but warns that something else has come through. (Incidentally, the blue haired woman is uber-cool. I hope they bring her back some time.)

Fred and Gunn find the scene where Connor took down the dealer and his crew, and tell Angel about it, who tracks Connor down to the apartment. He gets there just as Connor finds the girl dead of an overdose in the bathroom. There’s a lot of emotional conflict, Connor tries to kill Angel again but without the element of surprise, isn’t a match for him. About this time, the dealer shows up again, with a vendetta for Connor. Angel and Connor gang up on the dealer, and Angel takes several bullets for Connor as they escape.

Connor, confused about Angel, parts with him on semi-amiable terms. Angel tells him he is always welcome at the hotel, and they go their seperate ways. Connor ends up in a bad part of town, and meets the elderly Holtz.

That’s as best as I remember it. I’m pretty sure Wes was in there somewhere, but I don’t remember what he did (probably more of Lilah trying to coerce him to change sides)

Sorry I can’t help you with West Wing.