It seems like this season has been crippled by uncertainty about the future and direction, much in the same way that Season 5 of Babylon 5 was crippled by uncertainty and cast defections.
The two major issues include Wood and the school being set up to play major roles (but then getting nixed), and them trying to set up newer characters (like Andrew) to replace the core ones for a spin-off. This has taken the show in so many twists and turns in terms of a final direction that they haven’t been able to see a clear shot to the end from the start, and so haven’t been able to build the sort of driving momentum or purpose they needed. Like what happened with Bab 5, that kinda sucks, because I’m far more interested in the story that would-have-been than the one we’re seeing now.
Actually, I thought Faith’s behavior was spot-on. On Ats, she is interacting with the group that saw her hit bottom and begin the road to redemption. On BtVS, she is interacting for the first time with the people who she hurt the most, and (with the exception of Buffy and Willow, and both only tangentially) have only been told she is on the road to redemption, and, a la Dawn, are much more hostile.
Given Faith’s character as established on the show, she was going to be defensive and acting to some extent the way she thinks they expect her to act.
Did Caleb (himself, or those under his orders) blow up the Council? Didn’t quite catch that.
Has he been creating/controlling the Bringers all along? Missed that detail, too.
How long has he been in contact with the First? On the one hand, he mentions that she has never shown him Buffy’s image before (implying that he’s been showing her other dead people for a while now…), but then half the time their dialogue sounds as though they haven’t really met before now.
What’s up with the Bringers? Are they demons, or just people who have been twisted/supernaturally enhanced (i.e., so they can move around and fight just fine w/o eyes)? Because they look pretty formerly-human to me … but the Scoobies have no compunctions re: killing them.
What half-assed business abandoned its cellar full of wine?
I think the reason Faith was so different on the two shows is that on AtS, she was specifically asked for her help. When Wesley first came to see her at the prison, she was all snark until he told her Angelus was back. Angel according to Faith, was the only person who never gave up on her. She was stepping into a place where she had been asked to come, and got a reasonably warm welcome because she was working mostly with people who hadn’t known her when she went over to the Dark Side of the Force (except for Wesley, who is in a unique position to understand). So the 'tude came down and she could be more open with them.
On BtVS, she was walking into territory that was still somewhat hostile. She was needed, and came to help, but really, it hadn’t been so long since she had tried to kill them all, swiped Buffy’s body and used it to flirt outrageously with a then still evil Spike. I think she was more comfortable with Spike because he had not so long ago been evil and wanted to kill Buffy and the SG, so there was some common ground there. She got a very chilly reception, so, bang, walls back up.
I didn’t even notice Anya was missing until somebody mentioned it. She’s been kind of a nonentity since “Selfless,” and should have been given a dignified exit from the show an episode or two later. Her “much needed sarcasm” and macking on Spike in “Get it Done” have been nothing more or less than annoying. The fun, witty, struggling to be human Anya I think died after “Hell’s Bells”. Now she’s only still around because this is the last season for the show and the writer’s can’t think of a good way to write her out.
And really, the SiT’s serve no real purpose, either. I could see bringing in just a couple who would be actual (recurring) characters, but mostly they serve as cannon fodder.
I actually liked Kennedy until she called Chloe a maggot. That was way out of line for someone who was supposed to be helping train a bunch of what were then still scared little girls. She needs to go.
pepper, you’ve mentioned before that you’ve gotten a tad more hostile than necessary discussing Buffy because thats how the discussions flow on other boards. I say this not because you seem hostile now, but you’re damn sure deflating a lot of the idle speculation in this thread. This stuff is fun for the unspoiled of us. Please don’t take offense, but if the story ends how you say, we’ll all be bitter right along with you in five weeks. Right now the unspoiled still have some shred of hope.
I liked this ep, I liked Caleb, and I liked my wild thoughts of XanderGod. I just don’t wanna know how it ends for sure until I see it.
The story ends how I say? How, exactly, did I say the story would end? THe most I revealed is that Nick Brendon laughed at the idea of XanderGod—which, btw, is hardly a secret.
In Storyteller we saw five students go from being normal students to being Bringers when they knelt around the Seal in the basement. So, no, I don’t think Caleb creates bringers, I think the First creates them from human beings. I don’t know if you can take an Bringer and turn it back into a human with eyes and free will. Would be interesting if they could.
My wife thought I was insane when I broke out laughing at the end of the show. I had to explain the fact that at very beginning, Xander was masturbating, and at the end he was blind. She didn’t appreciate it as much as I did. I thought it was a damn interesting, and intricate, joke. Especially after she had bitched about wondering why there was Xanders’ “dream” sequence at all.
Pepperlandgirl, seriously and with affection:
You need to back down and cut about 50% off your hostility. I basically only know you from this board. I don’t hang around other fora and what happens at conventions and stuff might not be a secret, but it sure isn’t common knowledge. I get the impression that most Dopers who discuss Buffy (and Angel) are fans, but not hardcore fans to the same extent you are. If we were, we’d be hanging out on the same boards you do.
From what I read in your posts, your one of James Marster’s/ Psike’s biggests fans. I may be mistaken, But I also get the impression that you’re a Spuffy-shipper, no!?
The way you spew your vitriol over the characters Xander, Faith, Angel, and some writers/producers, especially Marti Noxon, is less than becoming. You read the scripts beforehand. You have the whole series memorized in a way I think is amazing. But the resentment is getting a little heavy handed, and your - sometimes - snarky replies to other dopers, who are not hardcore fans to the same extent, is getting annoying.
This is not meant as a flame and I might be way out of line here. I just wanted you to know how I feel.
pepper, I know what it is to be spoiled. I know how it is to be the only one who’s seen a new movie/read the script. But you have other boards to discuss what you know about Buffy. You kinda rain on our parade when you get so…down about what’s coming.
My point is that if the end sucks, every unspoiled person will probably be right there with you - when the end finally airs. But you seem to want people to get upset now and watch the finale with a skeptical eye.
Its almost as bad as a person coming into a Star Wars discussion thread to say that all involved are hopeless geeks and the movies are just fantasy. We know they’re fantasy. It’s still fun discussing them.
How did I say the end sucks?! I never said the end sucks, and I said earlier in the thread that I like the final five story arc. As a matter of fact, I listed S7 as pretty high on my “Favorite Season list” because of these final five episodes.
Even vague statements like “Xander’s role in the season is pretty much done,” coming from someone I know reads scripts and spoilers, tells me things I don’t want to know about upcoming episodes. I wish you would stop doing that, pepperlandgirl.
To bring the topic back to Buffy I have to still disagree with the idea that when fighting things that may be related to the First that going in with normal tactics is a good plan. Yes I know that probably Joss is going to have it be that Buffy is right in someway. The thing is she shouldn’t be. That’s what’s so annoying. It isn’t that she’s right because of something about the situation but because she is by fiat.
Additionally UPN scheduling people deserve floggings. A fucking repeat next? Come on. I suppose since it isn’t being renewed they don’t give a shit about viewership or something. Then again I can’t think of anything besides Buffy that justifies UPN’s existence.
Well, I just watched the episode. I feel like I’m being slowly weened off “Buffy.” Like when someone you’re over-dependent on starts acting really rude to turn you off, so the break-up will be less painful. The only thing in this episode that I remotely liked was the first shot of Faith fighting a Vulcan – but then they let that joke run on way too long, making sure they pounded every single bit of humor out of it.
I mean, they brought back my favorite character of the series and just made it all icky. I can understand the whole “she’s back among the people who don’t trust her and is defensive” rationalization, but it came off more like they only knew how to write the character one way, and had ignored the entire past few years of “Angel.”
And I’m glad The Devil’s Grandmother brought up the “Preacher” connection. They’ve cribbed from comics before, IMO, when they created Giles’ whole “John Constantine…” no, wait, I mean “Ripper” persona.
Which reminds me: diction. I’m glad to see that Mutant Enemy is showing loyalty to their actors by casting them in other series, and I think the guy did a fine job overall, and the whole accent thing as a character trait I’m fine with, but I spent half the episode rewinding to figure out what the hell the guy was saying. (The closed captioning was at the top of the screen, for some reason, obscuring every character’s head, so I turned it off). You’d think that for a show that prides itself so much on its dialogue, they’d spend more time working with the actors to ensure the lines are intelligible.
And I skip over any message that looks like it might even possibly be a spoiler for an episode I haven’t seen yet, so excuse me if this has already been answered:
I interpreted the whole “You’re the one who sees everything” line as a reference to Xander as “The Zeppo.” The implication being that he never does anything, he just watches the rest of the gang. My take on it was that it would’ve read better as “You’re the one watches everything,” but that’s kind of vague and also implies a Watcher connection. In any case, I certainly didn’t get the vibe from that line that it was in reference to upcoming events (except for the eyepatch that Xander will no doubt be wearing in future episodes).
Extra points to Hamlet for his interpretation, though. That’s brilliant! I don’t believe for a second it was intentional, but good call!
Faith and Spike? Even yummier together than they are seperately.
Caleb is creepy-f-ing-deepy. This is quite possibly a good thing - it means that the show is effecting me the way it’s supposed to. But still - creeepy.
The problem with Buffy’s speeches is she isn’t wearing her Yummy Sushi Pajamas when she makes them.
The more I watch, the more I think that Joss and Co. are just plain bored with BtVS. I’m (God help me) actually liking Angel more than Buffy this season. And I think SMG is really, really bored with playing Buffy. The only cool scenes she’s in are when she is either being The First Buffy and being all cool and evil, and when she is alone with Spike- after Buffy has been using Spike as a punching bag for three seasons, she’s actually starting to treat him as a person.
Both of these things are quite different from the way she has been playing Buffy (and Buffy has been written and directed) for most of the course of the show. These are the only scenes she’s in that aren’t the same old same old from SMG’s perspective. For any other scenes, she’s just going through the motions, faking it somehow. She’s not even half the girl she… ow.
