LonesomePolecat meet sarcasm. Sarcasm, LonesomePolecat.
In the first quote, I was being sarcastic. I was displaying the same attitude many of you have in this thread. I thought the triple exclamation point at the end of the last sentence in the paragraph would give it away.
For the record, I have been bullied and make fun of. Somehow I still manage to wake up in everyday.
So, brickbacon has now twice claimed never to have been bullied, and at least twice claimed to have been bullied.
Also, I think brickbacon is going a long way toward demonstrating my assertation that bullies are, in fact, enforcing the status quo. If his/her relatives who work in education are any indication, then bullying is not considered to be a serious problem by people in school administration.
So, if bullies by and large pick on people who are somehow “different” or “weird”, and school authorities do not consider people who are “different” or “weird” being harrassed, threatened and even physically assaulted to be a serious problem, then we have to examine the issue of why.
Which brings me back to the idea that bullies are basically enforcing conformity, and acting with the tacit, plausibly denied approval of the authorities in question to put nonconformists in their place.
My problem with that, Asbestos, is that it sounds a little too much like the attitude a lot of my peers (who were nonconformos) had in high school. Someone in school administration might care about students who cause them trouble, and some are certainly small-minded and whatnot, but I don’t think they really dislike some of their students to the point where they are glad they’re being bullied because it keeps them in line. I mean, those kids are often their best students.
I’ve got over 100 years of military experience in my family, but that doesn’t make me an expert on war.
As for your claims to “extensive study”, for someone who’s read so much on the subject you have a surprising lack of cites and references. And given your claim to have been in middle school at the time of Columbine, you can’t be more than 20 now – pretty young to have made a serious and in-depth study of adolescent psychology.
Of course, even if you had credentials beyond “I read some stuff” and “My mommy is a teacher”, it wouldn’t make up for your demonstrated lack of understanding. You’d do a lot better to focus on trying to present and support a coherent argument rather than attempt to impress us with your not-particularly-impressive family career history.
Yeah they are enforcers of the status quo. I was bullied in 6-8th grade because I was shy (I was voted most shy in high school). When I look at the other bullied people two were albinos, several were obviously poor, and one had weird face wrinkles. I know most of the info I’ve heard on bullying says ‘anything that makes an individual stand out makes them a target for bullying’. Being too loud, too quiet, too happy, too sad, too smart, too dumb, etc.
I noticed at the time that when I was more outgoing and assertive with friends (ie more normal) the bullying didn’t happen as often. So yeah, bullying is largely a means of enforcing the status quo. But some bullies just look for anyone to push around.
What I don’t get is why is bullying still not treated the same way it would be in the adult world. In the adult world you can’t commit a series of misdemeanors and low grade felonies (which bullies do all the time) without fear of repercussions, why do people let kids get away with it?
Even though I was bullied, it didn’t really damage me mentally in the long run. It wasn’t really bad though, I didn’t have it nearly as bad as the albino kids did and it was rarely physical with me since I was larger than most people.
Now, now, now. Asking brickbacon to produce evidence to support his yammerings is just going to damage his fragile ego.
Sorry. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. You tried the latter, and got called out on it.
In the “you didn’t cite any evidence to support your position” way.
Sounds about right based on the experience of everyone I’m familiar with.
Similarly, there is no way you could ever convince an astronaut who has been in orbit that the Earth is flat.
You do realize that interpreting the statement “your family believes X” as an insult constitutes an admission that you know belief X to be idiotic and/or morally reprehensible, right?
I certainly didn’t claim to be an expert, but I think, for now, I have demonstrated I have more personal experience with this issue than other people in this thread. Also, I’m 22 and was not in middle school during Columbine, I was in school when the school shootings became an issue in my community. I would love to know what you find not-so-impressive about my family history?
Point out one instance where I stated something as fact that isn’t.
Aside from provided the 2 of the 3 links in this thread and the only cite, and being the one of a few people who went in to depth as to what shaped and molded their feelings on the issue, I will have to disagree with you.
You are entitled to your opinion, I disagree.
Nothing like a poor analogy and an insult wrapped in one to articulate your opinion and advance the argument.
Nice try. I said that in response to this comment:
(my bolding)
Clearly, this was meant as in insult. If you really think my response amounts to an admission of anything, you are mistaken.
:dubious:
HOW have you demonstrated this? WHAT specific personal experience you have had? And by “personal”, I mean, having happened to YOU, not something you “heard.”
So tell me, how many times were you taken to the emergency room because of physical injuries inflicted by bullies? And in exactly what posts did you demonstrate all this personal experience?
I sincerely hope you aren’t really as stupid and cruel as your attitude here suggests.
Good question. Allow me to explain further. First, I have had in depth conversations with many members of my family that are in education who have shared their experiences. I wrote all about what they do in an earlier posts.
If you are asking what I have seen personally, let me elaborate by telling a little more about myself. I have plenty of first hand experience with bullying. Not too much physical abuse, but if you consider verbal abuse, then I’ve been through enough to comment on. Most of it was centered around being one of the few black kids in my school and having my mom work there. I didn’t particularly fit in with the other black kids at my school (I was considered a nerd), nor did I fit in with the white kids. That’s not to say I wasn’t popular or didn’t have friends, but you tend to hear a lot of shit when you are in my position. As a freshman and sophomore, I also had my older brother’s friends (he is 3 years older) push me around. In addition to the light hazing I experienced playing a variety of sports during high school. While I didn’t have to suffer through nearly as much as some of you, I think I have enough experience with bullying to comment.
As a mentioned before, a committee was formed during my junior year in high school to make improvements in the school. The committee was called the Safe and Caring Schools Committee. The committee included 3 students (I was one of them), a handful of teachers, two principals, the superintendents of two districts, a few community leaders, and the occasional guest. We met twice a month to discuss problems we had in the schools. Because school shootings were a big issue at the time, much of the discussion about them and bullying and how to help ostracized kids. I would read countless studies on bullying, school shootings, the dangers of cliques, etc. Then, we would discuss these things, in addition to the issues actually happening in our school, and hearing “experts” speak. In those 2 years, we had 2 full time police officers put in our schools, double the amount of hall monitors, name tags, and a zero-tolerance policy toward bullying, among other things, all in the name of safety and camaraderie. However, there was very little difference in the atmosphere at my school. Kids were still picked on and alienated, and fist fights still happened.
I have read plenty of things on bullying and am not convinced that it is the great evil many people think it is. Of course there are people who have to endure serious physical abuse. However, they are few and far between. Most bullying doesn’t result in lifelong damage.
You do realize the folly of discounting anyone’s opinion who hasn’t been through or done something you have? I would imagine you would have to abandon most of your opinions on most things. Are you really saying that since I’ve never been put in the ER by a bully, my commentary is worthless and/or uninformed?
Sorry that I was strong enough mentally and physically, and socially adept enough to not be universally thought of as weak by the strong. Get over yourself, high school is over. Live your life.
Inasmuch as you implied that you had more experience with bullying than anyone else on this thread, and this experience somehow validated your opinions, then it’s entirely proper to point out that I and others here clearly have had a good more experience with serious bullying than you have. I got on with my life a long time, bub, but somehow it pisses me off when a snide kid belittles the very real suffering that I endured in my younger days. Bullying is a very serious matter. Bullying can and does destroy people psychologically. If you insist on denying this, something is horribly wrong with you. Your attitude is repulsive to any decent person.
As mentioned in an earlier post, I had the balls to fight back. Apparently, you didn’t. I very much doubt you’re as “mentally and physically” strong as you think you are.
As is clear from pretty much every post you’ve made on this thread so far, you’ve got a lot of growing up left to do. Better get started.
And once again, having relatives in the field of education does not give you “personal experience” with the issue of school bullying. Having been bullied gives you personal experience, but you’re far from the only person in this thread to have been bullied and by your own admission your experiences were less severe than that of other posters. Having been a teacher yourself might give you special insight into the matter, but you aren’t a teacher, you’re just related to some. I’m not seeing any special amount of personal experience here, and certainly not more than other thread participants.
The high school committee you were on may be more significant, but you didn’t bring that up until just recently – after the post I’m responding to, in fact. Seems strange that you wouldn’t mention your only special experience in the area until so late in the game.
What am I supposed to be impressed by? So your mother’s a long-time high school English teacher. That’s nice and all, but it’s hardly an unusual accomplishment. There’s nothing special or impressive about being related to people who work in education, especially not if you’re counting extended family like aunts and uncles.
The vast, vast majority of people here disagree with you and many of them were bullied. You have to look at the facts and life experiences, if 90% of people who are laid off think its horrible and 10% think its ok or no big deal than overall its horrible. I was bullied and it didn’t scar me for life, but I will never allow my kids to live in an environment like that for years on end.
Throughout life, people will be in situations where they are both oppressed and an opressor. Bullying is everywhere, and everyone does it. You’ve done it. I’ve done it. Your kids will do it. If you ask anyone, they’ll have at least one oppressor story, and one opressed story. It’s at school. It’s at work. It’s on TV (Survivor, American Idol). It’s even on the SDMB at times. It’s not about nerds or physical weakness, it’s about who can be most easily teamed up on for whatever reason (voted off the island). It doesn’t stop because we like it. It’s in our blood. It’s in our culture. We tell our kids not to do it then go do it to someone at work. We watch Survivor and love it when the contestants break down and cry. Only when an opressed takes a gun to his opressor do we stop and look at the situation. But after a brief season of news sponsored hot button punditry and a few SDMB threads, we lose interest and go right back to being bullies. If we want to put an end to bullies, we have to stop being bullies ourselves.
Then there are people like brickbacon who don’t seem to think it exists.
My father, sister and I have about 80 years combined experience teaching in UK Schools. My mother was a School secretary for 25 years.
We are all agreed that bullying is a constant problem, and that each new yearly School intake brings the need to be constatly alert.
I’m sorry you were bullied. You may have had enough support to cope, especially with two relatives in the same school.
I think it is ridiculous for you to extend your experiences to cover the many incidents of bullying, especially in different countries.
As for ‘verbal abuse’, perhaps you would be interested in a boy at my School (35 years ago), who was gay. The bullies decided that nobody should talk to him, and they would attack anyone who did. After two terms of this treatment, he tried to commit suicide.
Discussions are useful to alert people to the problems, but the key is to get victims to report the crime. This is why your attitudes: ‘Most bullying doesn’t result in lifelong damage’; ‘I was strong enough mentally and physically, and socially adept enough to not be universally thought of as weak by the strong. Get over yourself, high school is over.’ are so repugnant. Which terrified kid would confide in you?
“Last year more than 31,000 children and young people called ChildLine about bullying, making it the most common problem our counsellors helped young people with.”
I think the problem is that many teachers never come to realise the full extent of bullying, they only get to see part of it.
I was the designated victim in my class. There was a point in which going to school was pure hell. Imagine going through the day knowing that absolutely everyone was against you. Someone in my class formed an anti-enigmatic club, everybody joined. Lessons weren’t usually that bad it was break time and lunch time. I was punched, kicked, spat on, tripped in the corridor, touched inappropriately, and insulted almost constantly througout the day. Most things were fairly minor individually but if they’re happening to you constantly they soon start too add up.
I ended up spending most of my breaks hiding in the library. I knew about fifteen different routes home and rotated them randomly.
It’s easy to say that you should fight back, but that assumes that the bullies fight fair, what happens when the girls are kicking you, do you hit them back?, what happens when the bully has thirty of his mates standing by ready to beat you up if you have the indecency to defend yourself.
I once had to take a beating from a kid several years my junior because of the sheer number of people ready to start in if I fought back, yes I probably did the wrong thing, but by that point I had practically no self esteem left to speak of.
And of course everyone had heard of the kid whose house had been torched because he stood up to them, it didn’t matter if it was true or not I believed it, my house was vandalised more than once.
I was pretty lucky in that I never got seriously hurt. I got beaten up, I got my head smashed against walls, I was fired at with airguns, I was hit with a table, I was stabbed with a wide variety of different pointy things, but I never got seriously hurt. Some kids did though, several kids were hospitalised while I was at school (one was thrown through a window off the top floor of a bus into the road).
I did tell the teachers about some of this and got very little response, I didn’t tell the some of the stuff because I was embarrased and I don’t think any of my teachers (who were genuinely nice people) ever realised just how bad it was, they just thought I was a whiner. The only time I ever really defended myself against a bully I was threatened with suspension (which seemed so very scary then) and at one point I was mocked by another teacher in front of another class when I tried to seek help.
All of this was at a “good” school in a nice middle class area. This kind of bullying wasn’t that common but still happened to maybe 5 or 6 people in each year group.
Throughout this I had no friends to turn to, some of the other kids sympathised but they did not dare to associate with me for fear of ending up with the same problems, my only “friends” were people looking to get behind me so they could stab me in the back, something which has led to my having considerable difficulty in trusting people today.
I understand what made me a victim back then, the things that I did to stand out, but even if I could go back in time I can’t think of any advice I could have given myself which would have made any difference short of maybe “do the same things as everyone else”, “don’t show any emotions” , and “join in bullying someone else” .
I’m sorry about the erratic grammar, but this is really the first time I’ve ever talked about some of this and I really don’t feel like reading back through the whole thing right now.