Christ no. Why? Xtian is a long established indeed ancient abbrev used by Xtians.
I see no disrespect in using an old usage, your ignorance of the same not withstanding.
Poor baby. Perhaps one should not be quite so superficial and actually get beyond that. No loss on my part.
Seething hate? That’s entertaining. Even better “If you wish your words…” That’s an immensely entertaining statement.
Go fuck off dear little wilting violet now, other things are going on.
Ta ta.
You realize, of course, that ignoring my post would have been far more withering. It was fun to get a rise out of you.
I wish you were a cheesemaker, too. Really. Ta-ta yourself.
Oh, advice on being “withering” – even better.
I await further advice with shivering anticipation.
masonite, your last post has the air of preening smugness that suggests you’re proud of your wit and superiority, and that if Collounsbury knew what was good for him, he should admit defeat and slink back to whence he came.
Unfortunately, you’re actually coming off as an airheaded doofus. I’d say you’re only a few rungs above the awe-inspiringly stupid grienspace, except that in reality you’re on his shoulders and the both of you are in the muck twenty feet below the bottom of the ladder.
C’bury has thoroughly spanked both of your asses (ably assisted by gobear), and your continued feeble attempts at defense just sound like whining. Give it up, goober, you lost.
You didn’t back down? Okay, lets review. your initial allegation
Sounds like you’re saying burnings are practiced today by Christianity. but after I call you on it we have from you
Case closed, lets move on
Interesting, albeit a red herring with regards to supporting your 21st century Christian torchers of humans. These cases are not perpetrated by Christianity.
I’ve never denied Christian atrocities of the past, but they are irrelevant to your response to my charge that you have misrepresented the character of Christianity today. I know that that the comparison of historical violence between the religions was brought up by me, but I never denied past Christian persecutions.
With your reference to Christian Germans, I would suggest your grasp of the facts is somewhat lacking. It was the nazis who were responsible for the holocaust, and their cause had nothing to do with Christianity. Furthermore, the Jews were peresecuted for their ethnicity, not religion.
Yes. I concede. I did find however amusing that you relied in all three cases on Christian news sources.
Regrettable, and you bring up a worthy point. However I did not read in your cite of one case of violence upon a person.
True, but we are still waiting.
Look, I never meant to imply that Islam as a religion is fundamentally a problem. But today we have violent strife at the frontiers of territory predominantly Islamic. Indonesia, Bangladesh, Chechnya,
Pakistan/Kashmir, the Balkans, East Africa and Palistine/Israel. We even have much strrife and violence within. Rather than Islam, perhaps I should say the Islamic world is on trial.
I guess you wouldn’t be sore if you are beheaded.
Cervaise, what is this? Revenge of the Nerds???
Media reports about African witch burnings typically don’t identify the perps as “Christian Terrorists”. Nonetheless…
Try typing “witch death africa” into Google. Here are the first 3 sites:
1)http://www.eightballmagazine.com/diatribes/diatribes030/diatribes605-625/diatribes617.htm
"In Lagos, Nigeria eight members of a religious group accused of using black magic to make a man’s penis disappear had the shit kicked out of them by an angry a mob. The mob beat them to death with sticks and then burnt their bodies just to be safe. The victims were all members of the Brotherhood of the Cross and Star the local newspaper reported. "
The religious affiliation of the perps is unclear in this case; it’s fair to say that many have an animist background. I’d have to look at the study.
Emphasis added. God I love the internet.
(I just realized that I misread the 1st quote above, initially. Oh well.)
Another link:
http://www.macha.free-online.co.uk/7day-extracts/modern-witch-deaths.html
Again, the religious affiliation of the perps isn’t clear, except perhaps in this one case:
“April 1997 - Swami pastor and wife hacked to death by members of rival church. The victims were accused of killing the rival church’s choir master with witchcraft. Independent Newspapers”
Dear Collounsbury,
Thank you. Your posts are as informative as ever, and I seriously wonder how you manage such patience when confronted by such out and out pig-headedness.
As for Grienspace, I think this is a fine example of his logic
If only straw clutching was an olympic sport, you’d be a real asset to your country.
OK, Grienspace, let’s try this again:
I wrote:
That’s the past tense, talkinjg about the historical injustices that have been committed in the name of Jesus.
I went on to explain why we don’t burn Protestants at the stake anymore:
We have developed constitutional government and the seperation of church and state, political developments that have not yet evolved in the Middle East. We have a literate, educated populace, again an element lacking in much of the Middle East. Blame the excesses of the mullahs on illiteracy, poverty, and the failures of the political institutions in Arab states.
Case NOT closed; you just can’t read.
Gobear wrote:
which you then hairsplit to:
Finally,
All I can say is that being headless hasn’t done you any favors.
gobear, your opening argument in the previous post is so obviously contradictory that I must question why I should continue. How you get a statement specifying “today” as referring to the past is beyond me.
Indeed when one re-reads your first post opposing ** Arnold**
bolding mine
Now after virtually claiming the more benevolent teachings of Islam appears dead and citing a litany of atrocities in the name of Islam, you now accuse me of impropriety when I say Islam is on trial and that I’m prejudiced!!! I wouldn’t have gone as far as you.
But after your initial outburst, you backpeddled. What happened? Did you find out that Collounsbury was back in town ?
Unlike you, I’m not a knee-jerk reactionary; unlike Collounsbury, I’m not an Islamophile. I think for myself.
See,. you’re going after Islam itself; I’m not. I said, and still say, that the behavior of radical Muslims and people who perform barbaric tribal practices that they falsely claim to be sanctioned by the Qu’ran has gone way off the rails, and I seriously doubt the Prophet would recognize what has been done in the name of the Most Compassionate. In the same way, I think Jesus is cool and I have no problem with His teachings, but I think His followers, for the most part, have betrayed everything Jesus stood for (protecting child-molesting priests, building cathedrals with funds meant for the poor, and so on).
The Prophet honored Jews; now we have radical clerics saying that killing Jews is a deed approved by Allah. That’s messed up. But I’m not going after Islam, an important distinction. I’m denouncing what the radical mullahs and the back-to-the Qu’ran folks are doing; you’re denouncing Islam itself.
For me, if people wish too coexist in peace and be kind to each other, I don’t care whether you bow towards Mecca, make pilgrimages to Rome, or let the loa ride you. Santero, Jew, Hindu, Jain, Buddhist, Parsi, Christian, Muslim–I don’t care who you pray to as long as you play well with others and leave me the hell alone. Frankly, I think religio is the plaything of an immature species, but if it makes other people happy, who am I to object?
OK, I’ll give you this one. Re-reading my original post, I see how the sentences could have been conflated. While I think that Christianity these days is still dead wrong (tell me where Jesus sanctioned building superchurches and begging for money, but letting the poor suffer. Where did Jesus say that serving God meant beign a Republican? And don’t get me started on priests diddling kids…), but no, they don’t burn heretics in Europe these days.
There may not be a whole lot of “Witch” burnings, but would the Firebombing attacks on Mosques post 9/11 count as examples of attacks on other religions in the Name of Christianity?
UGH. No, it wouldn’t.
I don’t care if someone threw the bomb and shouted, “This is for Jesus!”, it wouldn’t.
Same way us some of us Christians look askance at people who gun down innocents in the name of Allah - no. That’s nice, you believe in one God, the Higher Power and all that, but your real motivations are suspect and you’re most likely psychotic, so, no. You don’t get ‘holy points’ for that crap.
disclaimer: am not speaking for all members of my faith, and don’t have to.
Ironically, this was the point that Collounsbury was making. The nutcase Saudi religious cops don’t represent the Prophet Mohammed any more than apologists for African witch-burners represent Jesus of Nazarath.
Oh, and I’m not sure whether Collounsbury should be characterized as an Islamophile (gobear). Western Islamic expert, maybe. But I guess that’s a side point.
I don’t doubt for a moment your sincerity in the above statement, nevertheless is does appear to contradict your characterization of Islam today that I quoted you on in the previous thread. Never mind.
What I still take issue with is your characterization of me denouncing Islam. My statement that Islam (or the Islamic world) is on trial does not mean conviction on charges case closed. It means that the world is watching, judging, and can not be ignored. Many of us are anxiously looking for signs of opposition to terrorism and religious tyranny within Islam. We are aware of the benevolent Islam and searching for their voices on the public stage. We need to hear more than we’ve heard to date.
It is very clear that when we see the atrocities you described taking place within Islam finally eliminated it won’t be a result of the actions of the USA, Christianity or any other outside entity. It won’t be eliminated by the al Qaeda leadership, present or future, or by the religious police and the radical mullahs themselves. The responsibility and hope lies with the millions of muslims who practice and believe in the benevolent Islam. Young minds need to be moulded and they need to have the voices of the extremists drowned by other voices in the name of Allah, the final authority to which everyone within Islam obeys.
When I first warned Dopers about Air Canada’s banning of Salman Rushdie, I was ashamed for my country. Certainly it was pointed out that it was the government/national airline that was at fault but it also reflected on all of Canadians. Thanks to E-mail links provided by Muffin many dopers were able to communicate their dissatisfaction, and along with many other Canadians actually managed to get Air Canada to rescind the banning. Canadians taking responsibility for their government corrected a wrong. This is just an example of large entity taking action to correct a wrong by a faction, even though they bear no direct responsibility.