*[Note from ThelmaLou: “Mitzrayim” means Egypt where the Israelites were enslaved. Passover celebrates their liberation, as in the movie The Ten Commandments with Yul Brynner and Charlton Heston. But the word *mitzrayim *means “a narrow place” and can metaphorically refer to any place-- physical, emotional, ethical-- that one becomes stuck in and struggles to get through.] *
Per an account from a member of their congregation, the shooter was armed with multiple magazines, which he failed to use in his rifle. He didn’t use them, because a member of the congregation was armed, and began shooting at the criminal as soon as the congregation realized they were being attacked.
Basically, the shooter got a few shots off—I did not read how many, but less than a magazine, maybe only a few—as soon as he walked into the front door. This was sufficient to inflict a fatal wound on one of the worshippers, and various serious wounds on three other people. AIUI, the rabbi lost some fingers from a bullet.
As soon as the criminal realized he was getting shot at, he ran back to his car and drove away. I do not know if the criminal was wounded, though I understand his vehicle was hit, and its rear window punctured.
This very easily could have been a lot worse. I mourn for the victims.
Because the way I heard it, the shooter’s gun jammed, which is why he stopped firing. He wasn’t shot at until after he left the synagogue, by an off-duty Border Patrol agent who must have known something was amiss. So far as I know, no one in the congregation was armed or fired upon the shooter.
(Which is not to say it’s impossible for someone to be armed at a worship service - in my area there are 4-5 people who have concealed carry licenses who are permitted to carry weapons to services as part of the security for the synagogues. I just haven’t heard of any in the Poway Chabad case.)
Pitiful. Other than the yarmulke perched on the ferret on Donald’s head, the cartoon is on point and accurate. Donald is Mr. Magoo being led on a leash wielded by Bibi.
It’s fortunate that there was only one person killed and that they caught the guy alive so we can see what the motivation was. It’s also fortunate that it wasn’t a Muslim or minority shooter, the last thing we need is something to fire up the MAGAbots.
I heard about it from a close friend of the deceased—she was a guest of the friend and his family the previous evening, as his daughter had an important school function the night before—who obtained his account of the events from talking to other witnesses who were present at the time of the shooting. The off-duty CBP officer was not, an official synagogue security officer, standing a post at the time of the shooting. He was there worshipping.
I am not surprised that our media have chosen to tell the story in a way that would deny the agency of any person present at the shooting, that they could possibly take responsibility for their safety in any affirmative way. But rather were spared by fate. My understanding of the situation is that the off-duty CBP officer, praying at the synagogue, did not return fire with his service weapon, but rather a revolver provided by another member. The shooter may very well have suffered a weapon malfunction; it by itself though did not cause him to end his attack.
FWIW, a weapon malfunction by the shooter would not usually cause the shooter to flee. Most malfunctions in a semi-automatic rifle can be cured by merely manually cycling another cartridge, or at worse, changing magazines. I guess the extractor could have torn off the case rim, or he could have had a squib round, both of which would require a more involved procedure to fix. In that case, one would expect a suicidal attacker to transition to another weapon, which he might not have had, of course. Yet one more way he failed at his sick, perverse cause.
The cartoon is a piece of anti-Semitic shit, that even ten years ago, would never have been dreamed of being placed within the pages of The Old Gray Lady. I do not obviously think the cartoon influenced the shooter in any way. That said, Trump’s rhetoric has been blamed for encouraging violence like that committed by the guy in Charlottesville who deliberately drove into a crowd; it doesn’t seem out of line to ask whether anti-Semitic propaganda—in the New York Times!—contributed in some minuscule way to this piece of anti-Semitic violence.
I am concerned that the Times running such a cartoon constitutes a bellwether in American domestic politics, and not a good one.
Did this friend mention that the victim, Lori K., who apparently tried to shield others from the killer, (clearly a hateful vile piece of human garbage) is supposedly a staunch Conservative and a fervent supporter of Trump, because that is what I read this morning, but have not seen any mention of it elsewhere.
…the “media” will “tell the story” with whatever facts they can verify. That they haven’t told the story you are telling in this thread suggests (with all due respect to this alleged “close friend of the deceased”) a lack of independent verification on your part, and says nothing about the media at all.
Look, I don’t mean to disparage anyone, but that does sound very much like a “friend of a friend” account. Which is not to claim the account I related is any more accurate, as I wasn’t personally there, either.
Er… “off duty” would imply he wasn’t working. And, as I stated, in my own area we have people who conceal carry to services and community events. Perhaps you assumed I somehow meant paid security or employed security and i’m sorry if that wasn’t clear - they’re community members there to worship, take part in community events, etc. who carry in addition to the formal, uniformed security provided by the local police department(s).
The TV news seems to be making a big deal about this sort of thing, as if it’s something new. At least among the Jews it’s not. In general they’d prefer a world where such things were completely unnecessary but security, including armed security, is nothing new in that community.
Um… an off-duty Border Patrol guy opens fire on an active shooter and that’s somehow denying the “agency” of someone present? Where did you think the Off Duty Guy was shooting from? Mars? Of course he was there.
And I’d say shielding the children, getting them to safety, getting other people out of the room was just as much taking “responsibility for their safety” as opening fire on a shooter would be.
I’d say it was a lucky break that the shooter’s AR-15 jammed when and how it did. Don’t deny the agency of fate, here, either!
Ah, so someone else was carrying at the Passover services…
No, but it sure slowed him down, which is a good thing. Why deny a lucky break? Or incompetence on the part of the little wannabe-Nazi?
You’re assuming that Little Wannabe-Nazi actually knew what the frack he was doing with that deadly weapon - frankly, I’m not impressed by this guy. Maybe he jammed the gun and panicked instead of clearing the jam. To which I say good, it’s probably the only case in history where a gun in the hands of an idiot was a good thing.
Why do you think he was suicidal? Aside from being pretty clear in his manifesto (which I had the misfortune to accidentally encounter on line in partial form) that he was NOT suicidal, did NOT intended to kill himself, and contemplated a potential outcome of life in prison, the dork called 911 himself and turned himself in. Whatever this loser was, he was NOT a suicidal terrorist.
I dunno, maybe when his gun jammed, he totally panicked or something. The only thing I’m certain of is that for those involved it was a terrifying and confusing situation, which might have something to do with why there’s more than one account of how things occurred.
I expect that will be cleared up in a few more days.
OMG! How *could *they omit such all-important information as to the political affiliation of the victim? How do they sleep at night? How, I ask you? I see a right wing Facebook meme in the making here, on the same line as the 11 Marines who died last week with no mention anywhere (actually more like 7 years but who cares when outrage is concerned).
And what, pray tell, does that have to do with the temperature of spit in Wichita or anything else for that matter? I can’t keep up anymore - does the shooter get extra points for shooting a Trump supporter/conservative or does that deduct from his score? Is her political affiliation more or less important than her religion or her gender or the fact she was alive last week and is dead now? Did you test the political affiliation of the rabbi who was shot in both hands and lost a finger, or the young man who, despite being shot in the leg, continued to shepherd children out of harm’s way while trying to shield them with his own, bleeding body?
Why the hell are you even bringing up political affiliations in this thread anyway?
I’ve only seen it in Europe. It has never come up in any Google searches I’ve made. And I get the NY Times in California.
He might have gotten it in a search for anti-Semitic cartoons.
And the Times, of course, is run by known anti-Semites. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
I give my location as San Diego, because I live in Poway and figured no one would know where that it is. Now they do, in one of the most terrible ways possible. I don’t know why proximity to a hate crime makes it worse, but it does somehow. I guess it’s more personal in a way, although I’ve never been to that synagogue. I wasn’t even really aware that the area it’s in is part of Poway. In any case, I’m glad it wasn’t bad enough to get into Paul’s thread. I hope it’s the last one, but of course, it won’t be.
