Good point, tracer. Also, there’s the nifty trick of Taking Things out of Context. For example, one could apply this trick to Christianity in general and declare all Christians cannibals, because they eat Jesus.
[Homer] Mmmm… sacrilicious [/Homer]
Quix
Exerpted pages from the beginning of Mormonism, Mama, and Me are available at Amazon, so the Teeming Millionscan judge its quality for themselves. To me it reads like a hatchet job disguised as a deliberately “old-timey” Depression memoir.
Here’s a bit of dialogue:
Apart from the cringingly bad dialogue and the lazy “maid and butler exposition”, this memoir is not solid evidence of what the LDS Church teaches. It’s clearly a highly subjective reminiscence with a strong didactic tone, but it is, at best, only one woman’s story. I think that His4Ever needs to read more scholarly works on the official teachings of the LDS before she makes snap judgements of an entire religion.
LDS Dopers: Bear in mind that I’ll go after you guys in an archeology debate, but I can’t stand anybody being picked on so shoddily.
Good point.
That Toronto group was a Vineyard church, but was actually asked to leave. I don’t remember what they’re called now.
You know, I thought this was going to be interesting to read, but it’s in danger of just degenerating into a huge maelstrom of GD arguing about whose religion is right. I personally have pretty much despaired of having a real discussion on things like this here, just because of the nature of the medium. It’s too easy to blow up, because the person isn’t there to grab you by the collar and tell you off. It’s too easy to remember that the person on the other end is a real person, and deserves to be treated as kindly as possible. You know, Jesus didn’t treat anyone with disrespect unless they were being hypocritical or simply opportunist in the name of God.
From Cardinal:
Urrgggh. Obviously, that’s supposed to be “too easy to FORGET that the other person on the other end is a real person”
Wow, gobear. That’s really atrocious writing (not to mention misleading and untruthful). Painful!
Thanks for the help. I appreciate your willingness to stand up for people you think are wrong, too. 
I know zip about archaeology, but you know where that thread is.
That is pretty funny Quix. You actually got a LOL out of me on that one! I guess we must be Vampires too since we drink his blood. 
Since you don’t have time to answer all those extremely hard questions put to you above, H4E, here’s one that’s rather simple:
What reason do you have to be telling all the lies you’ve told on this board?
Though I haven’t finished reading all the responses to this thread, I noted the beauteous and kindly vanilla specifically soliciting my response to her questions, so let me be quick to respond:
**1. How did you get saved? **
Well, in a state outside time, the Triune God determined that the Son would graciously take on human form and die on the Cross in expiation of sin, bringing God and man back together, and then rise again to bestow on those who followed Him a new, richer, and more abundant life. But you already knew that…
As to how I personally ended up participating in that grace, I was baptized in the Methodist church next door to my home a few days after my birth, and raised in that church. After drifting away from organized religion or serious thought about God in my twenties, I married and with my wife (also raised a Methodist) began attending church again. Since the Methodist church near where we made our first home together had an ambience that could charitably be described as “arid,” we shopped for a new church, and found that the Episcopal Church very closely fitted our piety and intellectual interests.
While attending an extension course in theological education for laymen conducted at our home church, a discussion of what was going on in I Corinthians 12-14 led to one member of the class hosting a session of the class at his home, with an eye to presenting what was called “the Renewal movement” to us. In the course of that class session, to quote John Wesley, “I felt my heart strangely warmed.” From being an intellectual concept, God became a present reality in my life, and the idea that He wanted to guide my life, for my benefit and that of those with whom I came in contact, became a core part of who I was.
Eight years later, I felt guided to reach out in friendship to a young man in trouble who had grown up in our neighborhood and who had been effectively disowned by his family. The result of this was meeting the young man who became my ward, my son in spirit, and my best friend (and the father of the three kids who love me and whom I consider my honorary grandhildren), who in turn unlocked my emotional nature (which my upbringing had caused me to lock off, on the classic American Stoicist doctrine that men do not express their feelings, and properly shouldn’t have any). He and a co-worker who went into business for himself and had me moonlight as his sole employee together built up my self-image and self-assurance, which was sufficiently low to make me envy those self-confident enough to have inferiority complexes. 
The sequence of events that led me to my current relatively happy state is such that I can confidently see God’s hand at work in everything that happened.
**2. What denomination church do you attend? **
I am a sincere and devout Episcopalian, attending a very liberal and socially active parish. It’s my church home and my nearly-every-Sunday destination.
**3. WHo are your favorite authors? **
I’m a science fiction fan, reading Robert A. Heinlein, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle (separately and together), Lois McMaster Bujold, H. Beam Piper, Marion Zimmer Bradley, Spider Robinson, Poul Anderson, and John Barnes, among many others. Among non-fiction writers, I am fond of Stephen Jay Gould, Sir Winston Churchill, William Manchester, and Cecil Adams.
**4. Are you a Republican? **
No. My family were moderate Republicans, with my aunt a very minor party functionary and my grandfather on the other side active on the county committee and twice a member of our county legislature. I retained this identity until the early 1980s, when I discovered the party was being hijacked by Neopharisees. I am now proudly a registered Democrat.
**5. Do you consdier other sects not-christian? **
There have been some excellent jokes on the subject. IMHO, anyone who subscribes in some way to the basic idea that in Jesus of Nazareth we see God in human form and that His death and rising are mystically the source of our spiritual well-being is a Christian – and the lines people draw are not appropriate. In particular, I want to utter a heartfelt “Me too” to Duck Duck Goose’s erudite proof of how LDS members are Christians by “our” (non-LDS) definition. Though I disagree with a fair amount of LDS theology, I have no doubt that their heart is in the right place.
Aw, c’mon now, Monty, be fair–all His4ever has done is tell us what Thelma Greer’s book says about Mormonism, and seems to think it’s the truth about Mormonism. I don’t see where His4ever has personally generated any lies. Cite?
Clarification for Shodan.
I said:
**I said “popularized”, not “invented”. What I said a mere two paragraphs later in the same post would have clarified it for you.
**
Well, its been awhile since I’ve ben called that!
Thanks for these responses.
I didn’t realize there were so many christians on here.
… or if they were a fig tree.
<ducking and running>
She doesn’t tell lies-but she states things she thinks are true that are actually lies.
Does that make sense?
In other words, she ain’t the bull, but she helps spread the fertilizer.
Good one!
DDG:
This comment
is a lie.
is a lie.
is a lie.
is a lie. This first part, “this is just a small sampling of Mormon teachings” is the lie. I’ll be charitable and grant that the sacred ceremonies conducted inside the temples may be called secret for the purposes of this discussion.
That’s enough for now. I’ll post any that happen to appear on page one of this thread once the darn thing decides to load in my browser.
I’ll address the poll first.
1. Count me among those who believes he got saved approximately 2000 years ago, on a hill, on a Friday. How did I avail myself of that salvation, exactly? See below…
2. I do not currently go to church. The reasons for this are complex and are probably all excuses, but I am still practicing “solo Christianity” for now.
My background: born Church of Christ, which I won’t go into – if you know, then you know. Both sides of my family were hardliners all the way back to Campbell days. Baptized in the Church of Christ – that’s the whole-body dunking, mind* – at age 12 or so.
Attended Belmont Church in Nashville starting in childhood – again, those who know, know. A former Church of Christ congregation, Belmont in the 70s became quite charismatic. I think you could call them fundies, though they are kind of hip.
Attended a conservative Episcopal church from 14 years old, give or take; confirmed at 20.
Dropped out of the choir after 11 years, took a break from going to church, and rather disconcertingly quickly lost my faith. Agnostic for a few years, fully atheist for several more.
This year, became a Christian (follower of Christ) again - renewed my faith, had a second conversion, call it what you will, depending on how you feel about Once Saved, Always Saved. This happened in two ways. First, I began suspecting that if an entire generation claimed to see Jesus resurrected, and if hundreds of them were put to death for saying so, there might be something to it. I began to believe that something very extraordinary really did happen in first-century Palestine, based on what I consider to be reliable accounts of the times.
Second, I began to recognize a dependence on God within myself. The universe, without God, is terrifying and unmanageable to me. I can’t go it alone. All through my atheist years, I had been whistling in the dark, and I finally reached the point where I couldn’t stand it anymore. I gave up. C.S. Lewis said he was the most reluctant and unhappy convert in all of England; I can relate. God is relentless; once he starts bugging you, he never quits, never leaves you alone. For years he was talking to me and I wouldn’t listen. Finally he got through. A little.
I consider myself an orthodox Christian, basically Protestent in theology but with strong Catholic / Anglican / Orthodox leanings. I don’t hold with some of the things these churches teach, but I distrust most evangelical Protestant churches because they seem very willing to throw out 1,500 years of tested theology, and just make up their own doctrines as they go along, each local pastor interpreting the Bible as he sees fit, in isolation of anything other than private Bible reading. I see great danger in disregarding the wisdom of the early church fathers.
As to why I don’t go to a church, any church, that’s a whole 'nother thread. This is getting long enough as it is. Pray for me.
3. A range of well-loved reading material … Greek drama, Shakespeare, Chaucer, Arthurian stuff, Bronte, Edith Wharton, Roald Dahl, C.S. Lewis, Stephen Jay Gould, Carl Sagan, Richard Dawkins, T.C. Boyle, H.L. Mencken, Tennesee Williams, Florence King, Tolkein, Douglas Adams, Douglas Coupland, Will Self… my religious reading is virtually all C.S. Lewis (I have everything) and my “other” reading does contain some diverse stuff… I’m not a Christian who believes it’s un-Christian to read certain books.
4. I am not registered with a political party, but being conservative, I tend to vote Republican more often than otherwise. I do not like the Religious Right, but sometimes they say things I agree with.
5. I too am very uncomfortable with certain teachings of Mormons, JWs, etc… all of which I read on the back of cereal boxes. Christian means follower of Christ, so if someone says that’s what they’re doing, it’s not up to me to judge that. I usually stay out of heated religious discussions - I’m a lousy debater, and I don’t know enough. As has been said in this thread, it’s likely some Christians consider me not-Christian. I won’t play that game. God’ll sort 'em out in the end.
Finally:
genie:
Could you clarify? Heavenly parents, plural? What are you getting at here, could you explain this belief for me?
“I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of Heaven and earth…” – my creed, not necessarily yours.
*Reminds me of a joke, a Baptist asks a Church-of-Christer a theological puzzler about baptism: If a man is about to be baptized, standing at the font, and just before he is baptized he suffers a fatal heart attack, is he saved? Answer: Which way did he fall?
Oh, I dunno, Monty, maybe I’ve giving it the benefit of the doubt more than you are. I’m seeing more like “someone who has never really thought about all this but who is just repeating whatever factoids happen to be floating around in the head”, rather than “someone who is spewing intentional untruths”. I’m distinguishing between “lies that someone else has made up about Mormonism and that His4ever is merely repeating without having really thought about it” and “lies that His4ever is making up about Mormonism”.
And this:
–just sounds to me like the “I guess I’ll go eat worms” martyr stuff, not a “lie”. In Merriam-Webster online, “lie” is defined as:
And I’m sorry but I just don’t see “lying” here. I don’t see any intent to deceive. Rather, I see “ignorant”:
I see an opportunity for educating a person who is “destitute of knowledge or education” here, Monty. But since His4ever is evidently officially “going away for a while”, I suppose the point will be moot.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2407802
[shrug]
Masonite, that question is probably better suited to the [url+http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=128351]thread about the LDS Church that is still floating around GD. But a short answer is: We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in his Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. We also believe that the family structure is an eternal one. Heavenly Father is our Father; we’re the same species. It therefore makes sense to us that we have also a Heavenly Mother. They’re our parents. Now, since we don’t know a lot about her, we don’t talk about it much, but it’s certainly a deeply-held part of the way we view the universe.
Any other discussion should be on the other thread. We’ve taken up plenty of room here already, and we’re not even fundamentalists!
In my rush to get to class, i didn’t word the post as well as I should have. Yes, you are free to have whatever opinion you want, but you are not free to act on those opinions, and you are not free to expect others to allow your opinions to stand. Opinions based on lies deserved to be attacked, deserve to be destroyed, and those who cling to them deserve to be destroyed right along with them.
Kirk
Let’s look at Genesis 1:
First, God said, “let us” then he created male and female folks. That seems to indicate the us must have included a female archetype. If there were only males “in the beginning” he wouldn’t have made males and females, but just males - sorta like Babylon on QAF. forlorn sigh Wouldn’t that be something.