Yep, Jeeps have just about the worst reliability. 26 of 30 here. Ford is 22.
Who Makes the Most Reliable New Cars? - Consumer Reports
These are what I would select from-
Sad but true.
They also include the Toyota Land Cruiser , which can do anything a Grand Cherokee can do. In fact so can a Subaru Outback Wilderness.
He isnt driving a Wrangler. The Grand Cherokee is not a real off road vehicle- but yeah, it handles bad and dirt roads fine.
Yep.
My Main Cherokee has two of the four windows inoperable. One up, one down. 
The other has crank windows, but it’s the crummy cheap model without 4wd (I got it for free. Had I realized it was 2wd beforehand, I may have declined). It’s more-or-less Yard Art.
I went and looked at a few Broncos a while ago. They look pretty nice, but I don’t think they would hold up too much serious off-roading.
I don’t know if my Bronco would hold up to “serious off-roading,” but I do know that beating the crap out of a $50K vehicle doesn’t make much sense to me. If I wanted to do trails that gave me a better than even chance of ending up on my side or top, I’d buy a cheap, used, beaten up off-roader and use that!
I’d choose the Bronco. But I drive a Subaru.
I have jeep shoes! J41 by Jambu. Road
Map on the soles. lol. c ought 10’s
Just blew out the front cap
This weekend.
Exactly. Hence my total investment in Jeep XJ’s is just about $1000.
The Subaru Outback Wilderness would actually be his best pick.
I don’t know, I keep hearing things about how mean Subaru owners are compared to Jeep owners… 
In all seriousness, despite the fact that I put Jeep, Ford, or ‘something else’ as choices in my poll, as a lifelong Metro Detroiter, I kind of want to stick with one of the the original Big Three auto companies. I know, the concept of what it means to ‘buy American’ is a very ambiguous thing these days, but still, I don’t know if I can do a Subaru, or Mazda, or Honda, or even Land Rover (If I was prepared to pay that much). For various reasons a GM vehicle is unappealing, so I think it is down to Bronco vs. JGC, though I’m still trying to keep an open mind to be convinced otherwise.
The lack of towing capacity in the Bronco vs. the Jeep is really bothering me. Lord help me, I’m still leaning towards JGC, despite the fact it’s in 3rd place in the poll.
I’m not sure what is meant by “serious off roading”. East African Safari Rally? Lion’s Back? The Rubicon? There aren’t a lot of customized vehicles that can take those, let alone stock.
For less serious, which covers anything I’d want to do, (which can risk rollover but not a large risk) I’d take a Bronco or a Jeep CJ.
My neighbor has a mildly-customized CJ. One day I noticed it had some…unusual dents in the roof. Yup, he rolled it. Still drivable.
The Outback is made in Lafayette Indiana, FWIW. I will admit all these modern turbo engines blowing 22# of boost make me nervous. I would do your research. I believe Ford only offers a 3 year warranty (as does Subaru). I assume the feeding frenzy over Broncos is over and you can actually get one?
Land Rover is both expensive and one of the worst reliable cars on the market.
The Outback has a 3500 # towing.
Good point.
The Rubicon (I’ve never done it, but know folks who have)
is “serious off roading”. I probably couldn’t do it (for lack of structural integrity) but would be that guy who had the parts/tools/equipment to get someone else through it.
If you haven’t rolled a Jeep at least once, you really aren’t trying.
I had a GC for ten years and 195,000 miles. It was a 2014 Overland, purchased new. I thinkI have an OP about that, but that’d be from 10 years ago. Maybe I can find it. More on my GC later…
Fair enough, but where are you coming from? If you’re coming from Missouri or Kentucky, or thereabouts, that’s really not all that far.
I highly recommend more than that. Rent one for a weekend, or longer. Before I bought the GC I rented a Wrangler on a business trip (so, company paid for it, not me) because I thought I wanted one. It took over 10 days before I realized I really loathed the ride. 10 days. If I’d rented it for a weekend or a week, I might have bought one but I’m so damn grateful I had it for two full weeks. Then, later, I rented a GC for a weekend and my wife and I did a long round trip drive of 1,100 miles. We fell in love with the GC and within a week or two, I bought one. And we loved it.
This. The Bronco Sport is like a Honda CR-V, which I had for some 220,000 miles before my GC.
Yeah, Subaru owners might not be nice people, but that might be more a reflection of the FB group I’m in. I’m finding other groups and that doesn’t seem to be the case. So far. I actually posted a Hey, people, let’s be nice not snarky OP, and most respondents are saying they’ve encountered lots of snark too. There’s some less snark now, but I expect things to degrade back into’ normal’. Unfortunately.
So, yeah, 10 years with my GC, and 195,000 miles. It was an Overland with QD2 (so, rear ELSD), QL, ORA2, and all the armor. It was Trail Rated but not badged as such. I added everything that would make it Trail Rated. And I used all of the off road features. Nobody wants to wreck a $50,000 vehicle, but I pushed the edges of that envelope. I had done some lite off-roading before then, with the 2001 Honda CR-V, and then in the Marines I drove the old Jeeps and deuce-and-a-halfs, then HummVees and 5-tons. It was the military experience that led me to wanting a Jeep. And with the GC I took some 4x4 classes and drove away quite impressed by what it could do (good spotters are always helpful). From those classes I gained more confidence and more experience and was able to explore much more of our beautiful country.
I also learned that I don’t enjoy rock crawling, and that’s a good thing to learn and was a main consideration when I decided to get the Outback Wilderness (OB, or OBW) that I drive today.
These cars are my daily drivers. The CR-V, then the GC, then the OB.
The GC was the most luxurious car I’d ever owned to that point (and it still is). One important detail is that mine was a diesel, the EcoDiesel, a 3.0L V6 from the Italian company, VM Motori, which makes many diesel engines for trucks all over Europe.
On my nearby highways here in the wide open and wild western states, the GC could cruise at 95 or 100 all day long without breaking a sweat. And it could tow 7,200 lbs easily, near effortlessly with that diesel. I’ve towed RV camper trailers of all sizes, and more U-Haul trailers of all of their selection than I can count. I’m on a first name basis with my local U-Haul guys, I’ve been there so much.
The biggest thing I towed, and in retrospect I shouldn’t have done it, was a 29’ RV camper trailer, 5,300 lbs dry. I towed it for a 1,000 mile trip. I say I shouldn’t have, because the GC is too small and lite for such a beast. But I got away with it, no harm no foul.
And I got decent fuel economy too. It could get high 20s, low 30s MPG for an entire tankful (hand calculated), until the VW DieselGate fiasco and the EPA clamping down. After that the best I got was low to mid 20s. Still, not bad for such a capable rig.
My GC was stock, except for slightly larger tires. I put 32” A/T tires on it. These are some places we took it and things we did ➜ Best overall Jeep: the Grand Cherokee - Album on Imgur.
Why did I move to the OB? Because I wanted the bullet-proof reliability I had with my CR-V, I didn’t need to rock crawl, and the OB’s high-torque CVT transmission had enough torque. The OB is pretty capable on the trail. I took the same 4x4 class I took with the Jeep and it handled everything they threw at it — but admittedly, it was pushed to at or near its limits. I mounted slightly oversized BFG KO2 tires, and it is otherwise stock. So far I’ve had it for 5 months and 13,000 miles. I love the way it handles, especially with the low cg of the boxer 4 engine. And the 2.4L turbo moves it fast enough for me. It’s like a sports car that has off-road capabilities.
I chose to not get a Jeep because of the myriad problems I’ve experienced, including one lemon law buy back. My 2014 has so many problems that I filled a lemon law case. Jeep bought it back and we loved it so much (when it worked) that we got a 2016, identical to the 2014. So my 195,000 miles was 40,000 on the 2014 then 155,000 on the 2016.
If you absolutely need a lo transfer then the OB isn’t the car for you. If you need a car from the Big 3 then the OB isn’t the car for you. But if you’re looking at a Jeep then you know that’s a Stellantis product now. And before that it was Fiat, and before that Mercedes-Benz.
But the OB, especially the OBW edition, is very capable on the trail and in deep snow. Is worth a consideration. Just stay away from the snarky people. 
Hey Bullitt, thanks for all the great info! I think I’m going to look at Broncos tonight. Renting one for a week or so to get an idea of how I like the ride over time is a great idea. I know I like the ride of the JGC. So if I like what I see with a Bronco dealer visit, maybe I will do that.
I have a couple follow-up questions, if you don’t mind-- a couple things I wasn’t too clear on. Towing capacity is one big concern I have- I tend to drive my vehicles for 10 years or more, and I want the capacity to be able to tow something big in the future if and when I need to.
Could it tow 7,200 lbs easily, or was 5,300 lbs. a bit over capacity? I didn’t understand that part. I realize you said you actually had 2 Jeeps, a 2014 diesel that was a lemon and a 2016. Was the diesel capable of 7,200 but the 2016 model only around 5,000?
And speaking of the two GCs, the 2014 and 2016, you said they were more or less identical, but how did the 2016 do as far as reliability-- was it a lot less of a lemon than the 2014? I’ve heard consumer diesels have had various quality issues in other makes and models in general. Was that part of what made your 2014 a lemon? My 2012 GC, which I’m still driving, was well rated at the time, having had some Daimler parts and technology left over from when Jeep had recently been DaimlerChrysler. It seems like all the ownership changes, from Daimler to Cerberus, to Fiat, and now to Stellantis, have resulted in pretty uneven quality over the years…
Great advice in general. Thanks again!
And so? Look, one car of any company could run for a long time given proper maintenance, even a Fiat or a Yugo. But that is not the way to bet. Jeeps are notoriously unreliable.
Yeah, I guess that is jeep math. Otherwise, it’s one jeep that made it 40,000 miles, and another jeep for 155,000 miles.
So, a couple disappointing developments.
First, my wife and I went to a Ford dealership to check out Broncos last night. I had thought their late night was Wednesday, but it was Thursday. We got there right at 6 when they were closing. So I couldn’t take a test drive, but I checked out a couple models, and sat in one. And I don’t think I really liked what I saw. I can see why the Bronco is compared to the Wrangler, not the GC, even though it’s closer to the GC price-wise. Despite the leather seats of the display model and other fancier touches, it has more of a Wrangler-like feel. I didn’t like basic stuff like the way the doors opened and closed.
I did talk to a salesman briefly, who didn’t do anything to try to sell me on a Bronco. He was actually kind of dismissive. I said what I’d be looking for is a 4-door, probably the baseline Overland model, with the middle-tier 2.7 liter V6 engine, and a towing package. I asked about the towing capacity with that engine. He’s like, yeah, the towing capacity isn’t great. I asked about the mileage-- he says yeah, the mileage isn’t great. Then the price he quoted me for that package was a full $10k over a similar Jeep GC config. So all in all, a dispiriting dealer visit that I think has turned me off Broncos.
The other disappointing development-- I hadn’t even really been thinking about getting a new vehicle right now. I tend to drive vehicles until things start falling off. My current GC is 12 years old, and holding up ok despite a couple minor issues. Then, a couple weeks ago my wife got the idea of giving my old Jeep to our son, who I mentioned in the OP is going to college in Michigan’s UP in August. So she says “we got to get you a new ride, and soon!” And I says “ok, if you insist!” and I got the bug to get a new vehicle; I started to imagine my fun summer with a brand new (something). But now my son’s saying he doesn’t want my old Jeep, so my wife is now saying "if you really want a new vehicle, maybe you should wait till fall (for various reasons)… 
That they are, and yet many last a long, long time. I was hoping mine would. With the diesel engine, I wanted 500,000 miles and more out of it. Alas, ‘twas not to be, not for me. (Sigh)
@solost —
Apologies for my poor choice of words. The diesel GC is rated to tow 7,200 lbs, and I’m certain IME that it can, but that doesn’t mean that you should tow 7,200 lbs with it. Because the GC is quite simply too light a vehicle to pull that much weight for any trip ‘of significance’, and do it safely.
The most I ever towed with it was that 5,300 lbs RV camper. And that was too much for the GC. Don’t get me wrong, I did it, and it did it, but I had to maintain an extra large space cushion around me for safety.
I do recommend you speak with people who tow with the GC or Bronco, and who tow larger rigs. It’s possible I did not have my trailer brake properly set up. In retrospect, the brake was probably not set strong enough. If that makes sense. I only rented this RV camper that one time, so I was a bit of a rookie with something that big.
I drove it from San Francisco to Santa Monica via San Jose. When going over Pacheco Pass (hwy CA-152) that trailer was a handful in the downhill turns. My GC was almost pushed when breaking in downhill turns (which leads me to suspect the ebrake wasn’t set strongly enough).
You see, if the ebrake is set stronger then there’s no way the GC should be pushed when breaking. But that’s just me trying to wrap my brain academically around the situation. I may not have had the whole rig (tow and trailer) dialed in properly.
That diesel GC had gobs of torque, and I loved that. I was amazed at how effortlessly it pulled that camper.
I, too, tend to drive my cars over 10 years. I buy them new, then keep them for 10+ years. But still age only 10 years with the GC, I want ready to let her go.
I’d be happy to discuss it over the phone. Or if you’re in the San Francisco area we could meet to talk in person. PM me if interested. I believe that communication that way would be much more clear than through writing. And this is a matter of safety, so it’s very important.
The 2016 was much less problematic than the 2014. The 2014 was a lemon, no doubt. The 2014’s problems had to do with the emissions systems. With the 2016 it was better, but I had problems with the Air suspension, Drive shaft, and Electronic throttle control. It cost me a fair amount.
I will say this. With both GCs it never stranded me.
I was on the Jeep Garage forums for a while and I shared about my experiences.
The systemic 2014 problems with engine code P20EE are described here ➜ MIL & P20EE again & again & again... | Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum.
My lemon law case ➜ Possible buy-back, or other recourse? What can I reasonably expect from Jeep? | Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum.
Here is my off-road compilation ➜ echo7tango's Rig Off Road, a white 2016 JGC CRD | Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum.
One big reason I liked the diesel was its fuel economy, not to mention the torque ➜ Hypermiling the Diesel JGC: Max Range, 700, 800, 900 Miles? | Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum.
Here is my towing thread ➜ RV trailer — towing, renting and traveling with one | Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum.
I’m the OP for all of those.
Hope this helps.
I was a MoparHead all my life. First car I bought on my own was a Dodge Shadow I loved that car. Then was the Neon (bleh) and the dropoff from the 2.2L Shelby-inspired engine to that 2.0L whatever the Neon had was hard to take. Then a 2004 SRT-4 that was my favorite car. Then a Jeep Liberty and wife had a Jeep Commander. The way Dodge/Jeep has gone on their downward spial over the last few decades when I had to get a new car it was NOT a Dodge or Jeep - it was a Toyota. I would not buy Mopar now so I suggested “Something Else”.
Note: the only major make I would be less willing to buy than Dodge/Jeep is a Ford.
Your experience might be more a function of it being closing time. Add in an asshole salesperson and shake and bake, and that might explain why you were treated that way. Just a guess.
PM me if you want to talk JGC.
I would not buy a T4R over the JGC.