This. At that point any person who allowed their child near Michael Jackson was basically a pimp looking for a payout. And people did. And yeah, I’d want the full prosecution, perp walk, whole nine yards for someone who had assaulted me.
If I don’t bother with at least filing a police report and go straight for the lawyers and paycheck? I’m pimping myself out via my lawyer. That’s basically all that’s happening.
I take that back, one of them did file a report with Canadian authorities for an assault she said took place in the US… as part of litigation. Charges were never laid and the payout achieved. She then sued Cosby’s lawyer for describing the case as a “shakedown”.
That aside, there seems to be no police reports of this behavior anywhere. And I find that terrifically odd. I mean, that’s a hellacious coincidence to rape fifteen people and not one of them bothered to dial 911, go to a magistrate or talk to a cop.
Don’t underestimate the vast amounts of money that a high-end legal team can burn through. There’s also no way of knowing how many other victims we haven’t heard from because they’ve been paid off.
In my opinion the odds are good that he’s already pinched financially, and will be ruined within a few years - legal problems + no income is a good way to get broke fast, no matter how rich you are.
Statistically what proportion should have filed a police report? Recently in Canada we had celeb Jian Gomeshi involved in a similar scandal. None of the 8 women coming forward had filed a police report, yet they all brought up similar points in his MO (he would always turn around Big Eared Teddy before the assault) So which is more “statistically unlikely”: All these women come up describing similar MOs about a fake assault or that they all didn’t file a police report?
I agree. Memories are worthless that long ago. Dont get me wrong, it’s certainly possible that some of this stuff happened, and the large number of reports is unusual, but someone should have come forward in a timely manner.
When they did, they were quickly dismissed and rebuffed by people they trusted. They realized that no good would come from it, and it would probably damage their careers.
Man, it couldn’t possibly be that these women thought it was futile and all going to end in nothing, and that they really didn’t want to strip naked and have their orifices probed by a stranger who thinks they’re lying and wasting his time anyway if that’s how it was going to end up. Then the guy says things like, “Are you sure you weren’t imagining things?” and, “I don’t see any bruises.” It couldn’t possibly be that if it did get out people would call them dirty whores and that they were trying to blackmail poor Mr. Cosby. That their careers might be completely ruined because they dared speak up.
Nahhhh, rape isn’t underreported on a large scale at all. It’s totally surprising that given all that potential life-ruining backlash, most of these women would decide to just try and therapy their way through personally rather than pursue it legally.
:rolleyes:
You know how there’s all these people in the thread doubting the veracity of the womens’ claims? Police are human too, and some think these same things. Hell, some of them think that the women coming to them to report deserved it. And the rape kit sits in the warehouse and never gets examined. Unfounded case. Why bother, sometimes.
Are there any known instances of women making credible (if unproven, he-said-she-said) accusations of rape and having their careers ruined as a result?
Bull fucking shit. It’s misogny now to say that perhaps a persons life, liberty and reputation should not be ended soley on the basis of old allegations, with zero, zilch corroborating evidence? Just because they are multiple allegations means absolutely nothing, sans context. I can think of many cases (and not just of rape, but theft, extortion etc) where multiple people (male and female) made allegations and the accused was innocent. Remember the 1980’s satanic abuse scare? There were multiple independent allegation then too. All it turned out were bunk.
In actual historic abuse/assault cases, you often have plethora of evidence. Actual multiple, police complaints, investigations, and on occasion medical and forensic reports, which are used by present prosecutors. You have several independent witnesses.
You often have associates whose exact job it was to buy off, threaten, bully cajole victims and witnesses, or agents and or handlers who made things go away, and records of that. “yeah, I really beat up <abuser X> on that, told him to stop that. But I gave the kids family money, think it’s better for them to educate the kid/girl make something of him, rather than drag him/her through the courts and relive that”. (Note he used the exact same logic as you did in your post. Incidentally, it’s well meaning “logic” like that which does most harm to victims.)
None of that is available in the Cosby situation. For all I know it is. For all I know, he is the rape king of Hollywood. But until something more substantial is shown, I am holding off the pitchforks.
By the way, you do realise that just because someone says that the accusers story is wrong, dies not mean that the accuser is lying? A person can have mistaken, but honest beliefs. So can multiple people. See for instance, the Adolph Beck case in England. Or the afore mentioned satanic abuse cases.
There is a reason that you don’t record convictions on the basis of “statistical likelihood”. There can be hundred reasons why 8 (or more) women (or for that matter men) would have facially similar stories. You need to go deeper than that. Did they ever meet each other and discuss. Did they speak to the same expert or therapist or journalist (or different ones with similar procedures), and did that person ask them similar question, especially leading questions. Did that interviewer try to interject their own biases, theories and perceptions onto them, especially if they had started with the position that “x did this to y and this was his MO”. Did they or the people they spoke to misinterpret things and get that to color perception?
Again, it’s perfectiy possible that the answer to the above is “No” and the people really all did suffer the same way. But that is deduced by going deeper. Not just looking at superficial similarities.
An excellent book which deals in part with false accusations is Sadakat Kadri’s " The Trial". I have recommended it on these boards before and will do again. It deals with many of the question raised here.
ETA: iiandyiii, no multiple allegations are not corroborating evidence. Medical reports/examinations, independent witnesses, letters, phone conversations trascripts, those are corroborating evidence.
What bothers me is the most basic defense is not available to Cosby. For example, Cosby raped me three weeks ago on a Friday night at the Hyatt Miami Hotel. The first thing the cops check is Cosby’s schedule. Maybe he was booked at clubs in Atlantic city that week. Or friends can show he was staying at their house in California. He might of been in Europe traveling. All easily checked with modern computer records. The cops have to place Cosby in that hotel and on that date. Thats the most basic starting point to build a rape case.
None of that is possible to check with crimes that occurred decades ago. All that travel information was paper based and long destroyed. That’s why the statue of limitations is in place.
So instead the press puts this guy through a public trial. Anyone that wants attention and maybe a settlement can chime in with their own claims. Knowing it can’t be verified.
I’m not weighing in on the individual charges. I don’t know if any of them are valid or not. Too much time has passed.
aceplace57, you would be surprised at how much information and evidence survives. One of the reasons that Courts have softend their instinctive distrust of historic allegation. For example, maybe he was at a friend wedding and pictures survive of that as well the marriage certificate dates the same day. An old newspaper report (more likely microfilm or scanned nowadays) of a concert. Maybe he was overseas in Brazil on that day and his old passport still has a legible entry stamp.
So it’s doable. Helps to have an army of lawyers. And be a public figure.
I’m disgusted with myself because in spite of my posting history of giving accused criminals the presumption of innocence until trial, I can’t do that here as my emotional response just overcomes me and I conclude he is a disgusting fuck. As a lawyer, I think I’m supposed to set an example of not accusing people of criminal conduct and guilt absent conviction or holding a DA job. I think I should hold my tongue. But here I am not. I used to be annoyed that Bill Cosby was a non-medical doctor that insisted on being called “Doctor”. Cosby is a disgusting fuck.
But a lot of it doesn’t. Memories of people, who might have seen you this place or that, for example.
And you’re also ignoring the other half of the equation - the accuser’s story. If you accused someone of raping you last week, you would be expected to come up with some pretty comprehensive details, in terms of where, when, and so on. If you did, then the accused could look for an alibi. And if you couldn’t, that would be a pretty big weakness in your story. But if you’re accusing someone of raping you 30 years ago, you can’t and won’t be expected to come up with that type of detail. You’ll just say it was some summer day 30 years ago and no one will expect more. Now what’s the accused person going to do? Document where he was every minute for months of time 30 years ago? It’s completely impossible.
The only two things I’m going to say about this, um, astute observation is (1) great analysis, Ana, you are totally spot on. And (2), you do realize that all those "multiple independent allegation[s] were from the kids (and their families who all went to the same school together, right? If that’s you’re idea of what’s happening here, with over two dozen women spanning decades, well, I’m not sure what to say but do you have anymore of whatever it is that you’re smoking?
