Oh, one other thing I forgot to add. You need to know this to understand how terrified I am of my ex and the possiblity of another false accusation and undeserved RO.
It is neccassary for me to have occasional contact with my ex because we have two children together. There are times when we must communicate about school, health issues, parenting concerns etc. Plus I have to be in close proximity to her when we exchange the children for visitation. Because of what has happened in the past, the false allegations and the threats of RO’s and such I ONLY communicate with her via email or letter. I will never ever directly speak to her wether it is in person or on the telephone.
Also, when we exchange the children we do so at the local Police Department and an officer is present for each and every exchange. One would think that this is something she requested, after all she had an RO on me at one time, it must always be in the back of her mind that I could at any moment become a danger to her. BUT, this requirement was mine. I refused to agree and sign our divorce decree without this requirement being agreed to by her.
It is for MY protection. If I never am alone with her and there is always a police officer to observe any interaction between us I cannot be accused of threatening her or making a threat to her. I use a cell phone only so all of my calls can be documented, so she can’t accuse me of harrasing her on the phone (or at least prove it came from my number). Everything is in writing, as proof that I am not doing anything that could be thought of as warranting another RO.
It is an absolute shame that my children have to see their father live like this and be exposed to this level of distrust. But what are my options? I know for fact that she is willing to lie to not only me, but the police and the courts. I have to do everything I can to protect myself. Thought that this was very relevant to your question.
No, you didn’t miss it. I tend to try to keep details like locations and names out of it so if the ex ever stumbles across one of my post she can’t try to use it against me somehow. I know, the paranioa is mind boggling isn’t it? :smack:
But no harm in saying. This all happened in Georgia. According to my attorney the particular county that we lived in was notorious in the legal community for the number of undeserved RO’s handed out. In fact several lawyers told me that the judge that granted mine was considered an “activist” judge by the lawyers in her district. This combined with a womans shelter that encourages the use of RO’s wether they are justified or not makes for a very hostile enviroment for men in general.
As absurd as it sounds if she pushes it, you go to jail. When you are subjected to an RO the only safe place is locked in a room with a police officer observing everything. Hmmmm .. if only they had a place like this somewhere???
If the woman has a RO on the man, but is allowed to call him or go to his house, wouldn’t it be prudent – and easy – to take out a RO on her as well? It seems like that would solve the problem.
During obbn’s court case, could his lawyer have called the man-hater as a hostile witness? Could he just point to her and say “I call that lady”, or would he have to know her name? Would discovery apply?
Well, obbn, I certainly feel for you; I don’t know what I’d do in that situation. I was wondering however, how the monetary situation was handled by your divorce lawyer. Did you document everything your ex did when she drained your accounts? Were you able to prove that $xxx amount was in your joint checking account before and now there’s nothing left? As I understand it, any money that either spouse takes out of the accounts has to be returned and everything is split down the middle, subject to your area laws of course. And now that you’re not employed at a high paying job any more, were you able to lessen the support you have to pay to your ex? Were you able to “pay her back” in even a small way?
[moderating]
At this point, I think keeping the thread from becoming a debate is futile. I’m moving it over to GD so you can let the discussion evolve.
Thanks for the thoughts. It is a very emotional and difficult situation. My goal in telling my story is not to ellicit symathy (although it is appreciated), but to make people aware, to possibly attract the attention of someone in power, and maybe most importantly to keep someone else from falling into this hell.
In a perfect world I could present evidence to the court of what happen and the court would use it’s power to rectify and make the situation right. However, this is the real world. Both my attorney and the Judge seemed to pay little attention to this issue, in fact the Judge in my case made the comment that “the funds were in a joint account, it was as much hers as mine”, implying in his eyes that if I was stupid enough to not protect the money I got what I deserved. Looking back I guess I could have put up a greater fight to try to reclaim. But at the time I had to look at the situation as realistically as I could. First, attorneys don’t come cheap. No matter how sad your story is, how righteous your cause you are nothing more than billable hours to them. They will fight, but be prepared to pony up a huge amount for it. I didn’t have it, so I couldn’t push the issue as hard as I would have wanted to. The attorney told me that in order to prove our case in this issue I would have to hire a forensic accountant to show where the money went. Then of course he would have to spend the time preparing and then arguing this issue. The costs would have been astronomical without an overwhelming chance at victory. Secondly, I believe that the money was long gone. Meaning I think it was taken and hidden as cash or distributed to other to hide for her. Getting a judgment is one thing, collecting is another. I suppose if I had a reasonable expectation that the money could be retrieved I might have been able to justify trying to raise the funds to fight.
Also, please keep in mind that my emotional state at this time was not good. I had recently had 3 major surgeries and hadn’t fully recovered. I lost my career. My marriage was over and my heart was breaking about my children. Needless to say at the time I was emotionally numb and everything was hazy. If I think back on it now I will sometimes tear up as I still feel the pain.
What I have observed through this whole ordeal is that the courts in this country favor women in divorce and custody matters. I have gathered this opinion not only from my own experience, but from reading and talking to literally thousands of divorce dads. Women are not held to the same standards that men are held to. Asset division and child custody are so biased in favor of women that in order for a man to come out on the winning side of these issues the woman has to be so bad that even the most liberal activist Judge has no choice but to see it. Hopefully this will one day change and the family courts will decide issues not based on gender, but based on what is fair and best for the children.
Payback is a subject I have a hard time with. As a human I can’t say that I haven’t dreamed of having my day. The thought of her world crumbling down and justice served for the lies and heartache that she caused has certianly crossed my mind, as I think it would anyone wronged in this way.
However 7 years have passed and as strange as it sounds you start to become used to it. It hasn’t stopped and the games, the lying and the deciet still continue. But whenever I think about payback or revenge I am tempered with thought of my children. As much as I would like to see justice served I have to always keep in mind that this woman who has caused me so much pain is the mother of my children. To them, she is their world, so anything I could do would be hurting them as well. I have chosen to take the high road, but it is a difficult road to take. It isn’t easy to supress the urge to make things right, but I would like to think that by doing so there is a “reward” for me in the end. I am not particularly religious, but I do think that one day I am going to have to answer to the Man. Not to mention the fact that I wouldn’t ever dream of doing anything that might get me in hot water with law enforcement or the courts.
I like to believe that I have already gotten some measure of payback. I am married again to a wonderful woman and we have a great life. I would like to think that this bothers my ex more than she would ever admit.
In the end what I really wish and pray for is for my ex to stop using my children as weapons against me. I just want to be a father to my kids and be involved in their lives. She has done things recently that I am fighting in court. These things are way too much to go into in this thread and almost too painful to recount. But with any luck she has crossed the line this time and the courts will have no choice but to ignore her gender and put a stop once and for all to this insanity.
Thanks to all of you for your kind words. I have found this thread to be very intereresting. To the OP, I apologize if my story has in any way highjacked your topic. I didn’t mean for it to, but thought that relating my experience would help you understand the world of RO’s.
That’s where you (and others) go wrong. As long as “best interests of the children” is the overriding concern, women will always be favored. Bottom line is that although there are exceptions, women tend to have, and always have had and always will have, a stronger nurturing relationship with the children. (This is widespread in nature.) So as long as the children’s intrests are paramount, the women’s interests will be paramount too, since these will always be difficult to untangle.
Personally, I disagree with the concept that the best interests of the children should always be the overriding consideration, and think that other people have legitimate interests too, and general concepts of fairness and justice have some claim to consideration as well. But a lot of people take the opposite approach and are reduced to arguing that the best interests of the children are synonymous with their own best interests, and this is frequently an unconvincing argument.
As far as I am aware, temporary restraining orders are virtually certain to not meet the collateral order doctrine bar, or its equivalents at the state level, so I didn’t address interlocutory appeal.
In any event, a TRO would be moot by the time the appeal was heard.
Taking the recitation that obbn provides as fact, I’m not sure I agree:
The money in the joint accounts was prohibited to the man but available to the woman. (Outcome conclusively determined by the terms of the TRO).
The issue is collateral to the merits. (Who gets the money in the joint accounts is obviously not the subject of a protective TRO).
The money is gone because the woman had just as much right to it as the man did, it being a joint account. (Effectively unreviewable if appeal not permitted).
Interesting. I wonder if that was true about 8 years ago. My daughter was getting out of a bad relationship in AZ with a controlling little jackass. He continued to harass her and came over one night with his pistol strapped on. I encouraged her to get a restraining order but she never did. eventually she left the state to get away from him.
Years ago a girl I was dating was having an issue with a guy she had flirted with and then decided not to date. She lived close enough to the bakery she worked at to walk to work and he took to following her in his car driving real slow. They had a serious talk and I think he knew she was considering a RO. His response was to file one against her. She was mortified when the police showed up at work to talk to her about it.
Nothing much happened after that and it was forgotten in a few months. Interesting tactic on his part to avoid a RO.
Bricker, while you make a logical point, what you don’t realize is that Family Courts take such a wide interpitation of the law that literal meaning is useless.
You seem to think that what I have related isn’t factual. When a TRO is placed the person with the TRO is forbiden to access joint bank accounts period. The other person has free access.
You might be absolutely correct about the appeal issue, but let me ask you, who is going to pay for that appeal? Every penny I ever saved in my life was now gone. Do you think that I could find an attorney willing to represent me Pro Bono and appeal the decision?
I think the mistake you are making is assuming just because something is legal possible it can be done. Unfortunately in this country the full protection of the legal system is not available because we simply can’t afford it. Especially when it comes to men, for there are many resources in place to help women. How many can you think of for men?
It always makes me think of the WIC program to help those with low income have access to food. Do you know what WIC stands for? Women, Infants and Children. Do you notice a particular group absent? From the WIC website:
Mission is to support low-income women and children up to age 5 who are at nutritional risk …
According to the US Government only women and children can be at “nutritional risk”. What a great world we live in were men are incapable of starving to death. I
I realize that this has nothing to do with RO’s, but it certainly illustrates the point that the US Government (which the courts are certainly a member) treat women differently than they do men.
Bricker, I need to add also, that I was never making the claim that the RO’s directly prevented me from recovering funds. That decision was made during the divorce. However the RO gave her the ability to have unrestricted access to them and to prevent me from in any way stopping the fleecing of our accounts.
I do however think that the RO played a significant factor in the divorce, putting me at a overwhelming disadvantage in the eyes of the court. I would be willing to go far as to say that RO’s are used as a divorce strategy, to give (mainly) women the advantage in court. Of course in my example I am refering to RO’s gotten through lies and deciet. RO’s placed out of an actual and real threat are justified and a different animal all together.
Hate to take issue with you, but I lived it. The order specifically bared me from removing money from joint bank accounts, disconnecting any utilities in my name from my residence and a number of other restrictions. I am sure I have the origional RO here somewhere filed away. If I get motivated enough I will try to find it and quote exact verbage. However, it would dredge up old and very unpleasant memories so maybe I won’t.
I do have a point when it comes to WIC. The exclusion of men. The program is designed to help people who are low income obtain food resources. That the program by design was concived to exclude men is very telling as to the current attitude toward men.
Men are constantly overlooked in situations where gender can play a part. Have you ever seen a “battered” mens shelter? Nope, at least I cannot recall every hearing of one. Is that because men are never battered by women? I recall one poster up thread who contacted a womens shelter after his brother was slapped with a TRO even though he was the victim. The quote from the representative of the shelter was something to the effect that it was her belief that men can never be battered by a woman.
In the end the courts have been conditioned to treat men and women different. The assumtion is that all men are dangerous and violent. That in almost all cases men are not suited to have primary custody of the children (and yes, I am aware that it does happen in some circumstances. However the standard assumtion is that the women get the children, no matter what).
In my case I am currently in litigation trying to get custody of my children. My ex-wife broke the law concerning them. There is absolutely no other conclusion to reach that she broke the statute and that statute call for a charge that is a 3rd Degree Felony. I went to the DA and they are refusing to procecute. My attorney says that is normal and a problem. This statute is broken all the time by mothers and the DA almost never chooses to procecute. Let’s see how that would work if the situation were turned around and a father did it.
And no, I will not go into details of the above violation as the issue is now pending in court. Once the case has been resolved I will be more than happy to go into detail, but I don’t think that it would be advisable to do so now.