Saw that coming a mile away.
Hoo Boy, Calgary is getting socked so hard with snow that Edmonton is sending them plows right now…They can keep it, I need at least two more snow free weeks.
We’re getting the first part of that storm here on the shores of the mighty Wascana. Don’t know if it will expend itself in Calgary or keep coming east.
We got some snow down here, but not enough to worry about. The streets are clear. I think that my neighbour’s tomato plants have had it, though.
One seemingly minor event that occurred as part of the Quebec election got my mind running, and I felt the need to share it here. Mostly, I want to tell an anecdote (and brag about the people I know :o) but it does bring up issues of Canadian constitutional law, Canadian federalism, and Canadian identity and culture as well as my ongoing (for the last 15 years at least) attempts to understand it. I guess it’s mostly Northern Piper and Spoons who might find it interesting, and it’s long, so for most of you feel free to skip it.
If you’ve looked closely at the election results, you may have noticed one Sol Zanetti unexpectedly winning for Québec solidaire in Jean-Lesage (in Quebec City, around Limoilou). I met Sol two years ago, in Winnipeg, where I was teaching at the time. Our philosophy professor, a former colleague of his (they did their doctorate together) had invited him, as then-leader of Option nationale, to take part in a panel discussing the relationship between Quebec and Canadian francophones. Among the other panelists were Raymond Hébert, Franco-Manitoban political scientist, and Benoît Pelletier, constitutional law professor at the University of Ottawa and former minister of Canadian intergovernmental affairs in Jean Charest’s government in Quebec.
Now, minority francophones are some of the staunchest opponents not only of Quebec independence but also of any form of Quebec national affirmation, so Sol got soundly attacked. Hébert even made what I thought was a fairly silly (though thoroughly Canadian) argument, explaining that the habitant is the founding figure of Quebec while the voyageur is the founding figure of French Manitoba, which explains why (according to him) Quebecers are inward-looking, closed-minded and xenophobic, while Manitobans are open-minded and open to cultural exchange. I came out of it thinking Hébert really hates Quebec. Sol had to restrain himself from responding to some unfair attacks, but he did make some good points. He wasn’t really able to explain how Quebec independence would help minority francophones (probably because it wouldn’t), but he did explain quite well why the Quebec government rarely supports minority francophones when they sue their provincial governments to get them to respect their language rights. The Canadian constitution considers the status of English in Quebec and of French elsewhere in the country to be symmetrical even though they clearly aren’t, so any court victory by francophones outside Quebec will be a much bigger victory for Quebec anglophones. Pelletier thought the solution to this problem was official recognition that the status of both languages isn’t symmetrical between Quebec and the other provinces, which to me was naïve, since I’ve only ever heard Quebec federalists speak of asymmetrical federalism: to everyone else, it’s “giving special rights to Quebec” and a complete non-starter.
I got to speak with Raymond Hébert at another event some time later. Now, as I’ve said, Canadian francophones are some of the staunchest opponents of Quebec nationalism. They’ll always bring René Lévesque’s comment about them being “warm corpses”, and say that they’re still there while Lévesque’s dead and so’s his party (I say: we’ll see about that ;)). They’re also some of the proudest Canadian patriots, which is strange since they’ve suffered more from Canada than we did. Especially those who really care about French (like Hébert) cannot but know about Canada’s decades-long efforts to destroy their culture. They also like to say that French in Canada is in the best position it’s ever been, with thousands of French immersion students and more support for the language than there’s ever been. Anyway, so I meet with Hébert and his sister, and I tell them I come from Gatineau, Quebec, and Hébert’s sister tells me she’s lived there 20 or so years. They ask me if I was shocked by how anglicized Manitoba’s francophones were when I moved. Hébert’s sister tells me she certainly was when she moved back. Young Franco-Manitobans no longer speak among themselves in French. They can speak it, but among themselves it’s English only. And the Héberts are worried about the future of their community, they wonder if this might not be the last generation that’ll speak French.
So this makes me think: it seems to me that Canadian culture is very symbol-oriented. For example, people will openly say things they don’t really believe, like that everything is a-ok for French culture, while they’ll privately admit they don’t know if it’ll last 30 years. I’ve also noticed it with Canada’s attitude towards its native population (a very important issue in Manitoba), which seems to revolve around showing symbols of awareness rather than doing anything concrete. Has anybody else noticed this? As a Quebecer, this is something I find strange, since I feel we’re much more, well, let’s say “candid”.
Also, here’s to you, Sol. I don’t really like the party you got elected with, but I respect people who give their life for public service, and as far as I can tell you’re a great fellow. Also, I cannot believe you actually managed to win; I thought QS had put you there to get rid of you and that you’d finish dead last. If you read this, cheers, and do start posting on the SDMB because we need more diversity of thought!
Hypnagogic Jerk, Quebec is just different in this respect.
While identity issues are a hobby for most Canadians -something we might examine/reaffirm/joke/claim/fear doesn’t or does exist; in Quebec it’s a daily negotiation. **Everything **is constantly, continuously, and heatedly debated. The status of French in Quebec, English in Quebec, Religion in Quebec, immigrants in Quebec, Quebeckers in Quebec, Quebeckers out of Quebec, Quebec’s place in Canada, Quebec’s place in world, etc.
What surprises me is how after all of these daily (& fair) evaluations, people will still have fears that Quebec’s historical/cultural/linguistic distinctions are in danger, **or **that Quebecois are comparable to francophones in the ROC. Quebec has MUCH more agency then native groups, or francophone minority groups. Quebec’s position (and ability to safeguard their traditions) are not in any realistic danger.
I don’t think identity issues are a hobby for Canadians, I think they’re just as much of a necessity, but Canadians seem to navigate them in a very different way. It’s as if Canadians can’t talk about them directly, so they have a sort of meta-language which I don’t really understand. This is what I mean by the importance of symbols.
“People like me are different from people like you because of how you handle identity issues” makes me laugh out loud.
Your perceptions are your perceptions which are true to you, but not necessarily to others. But I don’t see what you are seeing (that non-Quebeckers are too indirect and mealy-mouthed).
There is some tact/respect required in the evaluation of cultural issues and identity, but I don’t find your franco-Manitoban example convincing. The idea that French Canadian society is ultimately doomed to die is flatly fatalistic (and insultingly dismissive to those people who carry their traditions). This doesn’t mean that their communities can’t be quantified and evaluated (in number of speakers, degree of language use, production of media, or whatever). However, I don’t find it disingenuous that people would fight such a conclusion.
I don’t understand why Terri-Lynne McClintic is being transferred to a “healing lodge.”
For what possible reason does this make sense at all. She was complicit in the kidnapping, rape, and murder of an eight year old girl in 2009 and sentenced to 25 years to life in prison.
What is this all about? How could the Liberals and NDP vote in the House of Commons to let this happen? Even the local band members are furious and don’t want her there; heck, she may not even be indigenous.
And Trudeau bailed on the vote to boot . What the heck are the rest of us missing in this story. None of it makes any sense. She belongs in prison, not a healing resort.
The Liberals voted it down because it was a ridiculous motion. There’s a very good reason why we don’t allow politicians to meddle in individual cases in our justice system. Doing so invites horrific abuse. If the Conservatives don’t understand that they have no business being in government.
I’ll take the judgement of dispassionate civil servants over rabble-rousing politicians any day when it comes to deciding on how to best punish an individual criminal. It’s definitely possible that a mistake was made in this case, but that’s why the Liberals asked the people in charge to review the decision.
Thanks.
So, if we don’t allow politicians to meddle in individual cases in our justice system, then how did it come to a vote in the House?
What “people in charge” are reviewing the decision, and by when?
You realize of course that the Okimaw Ohci Healing Lodge is a federal penitentiary run by Correctional Service Canada? It’s a prison. It’s not a holiday resort. Yes, it’s more aligned with attempted rehabilitation than it is with grim retribution, but that’s not a bad thing. Inmates that are going to re-enter society should be given the tools to do so in a successful manner.
As to whether McClintic is a good candidate for the Healing Lodge program, I have no idea. I inclined to think that CSC officials are better equipped to make that decision than politicans, though.
Thank you. That’s the sort of information I’m looking for. I have multiple Facebook posts from outraged Canadians. I haven’t replied nor responded in any manner because frankly, I don’t have all the information.
That’s why I’m asking you learned folks here.
Didn’t her sentence specify 25 yrs with, ‘no possibility of parole’, though?
Yet this seems like a standard preparole placement.
Something still stinks here, if you ask me.
Nothing warms my heart more that to see different rights and laws(sentences, outcomes) for people based upon skin colour or claimed personal preference.:dubious:
Just wanted to wish everyone a happy Thanksgiving weekend.
So, what do you think happened in the Quebec election? The CAQ seems to have taken voters from both the PQ and PLQ while QS took voters from the PQ. Mario Dumont must be happy if a little wistful.
Riding the populism wave.
Back atcha. And a happy Thanksgiving to everyone!