Thanks for the correction, Otto; I am a total dipshit sometimes when it comes to post-prandial posting. I’m also in total agreement with your assessment of Twin Peaks, which was one of the first shows I ever watched religiously and discussed with other people to figure out what was going on. And Bob still scares me; there’s that shot where he’s crouched down at the end of Laura’s bed, with a twisted face that I still can’t watch on video.
So are there any theories on Ben’s experience in the mineshaft, particularly the significance of “AVATAR”? Is Lodz waiting for him above ground? Ben’s also not the dumb farm boy he appeared to be at first; his conversation with Lodz revealed he knows more about his powers than Lodz, Samson, and Sofie think he does. I’m inclined to believe the mineshaft was a vision, based on the “voiceover” by Brother Justin, Ben’s drunkeness, and what I think is Lodz’s influence on Ben (as seen in “Black Blizzard”), as well as the sealed-off passageways and the body of the man Scudder killed. I was also expecting some connection with the trenches during WWWI.
As far as Management’s concerned, I don’t want it to be Devil, or God. Just someone or something with vested interests. Management brought them to Babylon, which seems to be without a doubt a bad place not only for carnies but for the miners as well, but apart from Dora Mae’s murder the reasons why remain to be seen.
I looked up the defiantion of Avatar (I know generally what one is-but more specifically). Some interpretations of what an Avatar is/means: * An embodiment of a quality or concept of an archetype; *a temporary manifestation or aspect of a continuing entity.
Was Ben meant to understand that who or what he saw in the cave was only an aspect of his father? (I’d say yes.) Is his father a continuing entity? (Yes on that one, too.) Is his father an archetype, the archetype for Ben? That would appear to be affirmative as well, but it’s too early to tell for sure.
I’m inclined to believe the mineshaft is a vision too, but if it is, I’m puzzeled as to why Lodz appears to be sitting outside it, waiting for Ben.
Ben turning out to be wiser than he first appeared seems to jibe with overall feel to the show that there are layers of meaning and there is much going on beneath the surface with the storyline, and especially with the characters.
I’m still trying to figure out who or what Management is. Is Samson talking to thin air? He seems pretty grounded–not the type to have auditory hallucinations.
Aren’t Ben and Justin supposed to be embodiments of the Eternal Battle Betwixt Good And Evil[sup]TM[/sup]? Which would make them avatars? I’m thinking this is Ben’s getting more of an insight into who and what he is and the role he may/will play in the EBBGAE.
Which if that’s the case, since we already know that, snore. Otherwise, interesting. I did like how when Ben wrote out on his arm he started in the middle of the word and didn’t somehow know which was the first “A.”
The subplot(s) I’m now finding most intriguing are the Jonesey/Sophie and the Jonesey/Samson subplots. I’m hoping we find out more about this “deal” that Samson and Jonesey had and the source of Sophie’s animosity toward Jonesey.
Out of curiousity, I wandered over to www.hbo.com.
The answer to your Jonesey/Sophie question is there–at the
Sophie bio. (Of course there may be more to the animosity than that simple explanation.)
Yes, broadly Ben and Justin are polarities…or are they? To me they are not firmly fixed avatars. As you said, this scene may have been conveying Ben’s gaining of insight into his place in the Eternal Battle, but I really want it to be not so simple as Ben = Good and Justin = Evil.
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Out of curiousity, I wandered over to www.hbo.com.
The answer to your Jonesey/Sophie question is there–at the
Sophie bio. (Of course there may be more to the animosity than that simple explanation.)
I’m enjoying it immensely. I’m along for the ride, I don’t need a big payoff every time I sit down. I’m enjoying being in another time and place.
My best friend is good pals with Clancy Brown, who plays the minister. He hasn’t spoiled her, but he did say that his character is one very sick puppy.
My fear is that the big reveal will be that Ben is the Antichrist-qua-Damien. If so, I will be sorely disappointed that they took 3 seasons to reveal the obvious.
If Ben does end up being the anti-Christ, they will have by that point done their best to convince you otherwise. So far his powers have been of a healing nature, where as the Preachers have been far more punishing.
Then again, it would be very like Satan to make his avatar seem good.
Yeah, he does offer healing, but so far two people, including his own mother, have told him in no uncertain terms to stay away from them and let them die. It’s almost as if they’d rather die than make a pact with the devil sort of thing.
As well as the fact that Ben’s healing powers come with a price–“to give life, you’ve got to take it from somewhere else”–as seen when he healed the girl’s legs and the crops died. So in that sense the source of Ben’s power and how it works seem more ambiguous than simply benevolent healing (of which Ben appears well aware) or punishing.
As far as his mother goes, she apparently declared his power evil on the basis of his reviving the cat, “bringing back” something God had “taken.” So that may or may not be indicative of source; it could just as easily be she was an uneducated and unsophisticated person unable to make any connection with supernatural forces other than the god/satan dichotomy. Although she apparently knows Scudder, it’s unclear whether she was aware of any supernatural abilities Scudder may have possessed.
As for the other woman, she clearly knew more about Ben’s powers than his mother did. It is entirely possible, knowing the price involved, that she refused his help because she did not want healing at the cost of another life.
What I wonder is whether Ben can consciously choose (or will one day be able to consciously choose) from where he draws the “life-force” that he uses to heal. Since at this point it has been presented as a transfer of energy, it doesn’t strike me as being inherently evil. Now, his deciding to take life from one person to heal another, or deciding to wipe out crops or livestock which would otherwise have supported many to benefit one, that is a nice set-up for an “I decide who lives and dies” dynamice which could very easily skew evil.
Although as you note in your post, the fact that there’s more to Ben’s mom (and her relationship to Scudder) than that to which we are yet privy could mean that she actually did know what she was doing and that her presentation as close-minded in the first episode was actually a blind.
I for one am still watching and enjoying CARNIVALE. It’s filling the void that BTVS left in my TV viewing schedule; I need one show about the supernatural per season, it seems.
I am still on the fence as to which character is evil, Ben or Justin. Both of them have a dark side to their powers and neither is a particularly nice guy. Where Hack Scudder comes in is beyond me, but unlike most other folks, I’m still interested in that mystery.
Does anyone else think there may be something romantic brewing between Sofie and Libby? Maybe that’s just in my prurient imagination.
Where’s Lodz’s connection with Ben? Why is he so interested? At one point when he was talking to the bearded lady, he called Ben “a good suck,” which makes me wonder if he can feed off the psychic powers of others (which would account for Apollonia’s negative feelings towards him).
Yes, Lodz is working mightily to forge a connection with Ben. It would explain Ben’s charging into Lodz’s trailer and chewing him out, perhaps for ‘getting into’ Ben’s head.
I with you here, too. This series is challenging to watch, but it seems most people want easy diversion with nothing to puzzle over afterwards. I enjoy the mystery, as well as the many other rich rewards of watching this show.
IMHO, Justin is the evil one - everything he tries to do “right” ends in death and pain.
I think Ben is showing potential for good in that he is obviously conflicted; he wants to help people, but he wonders whether he should. He understands subtlety. Justin is just blindly convinced that what he wants is best for everyone. He lives in black and white. I find the latter much more scary than the former.
As for the women who didn’t want healing; what did they really have to live for? They both seemed ready to die. If I were ready to welcome death, I’d pooh-pooh a new lease on life too.