From a previous thread (SPOILER added for those who have yet to see the season finale):
Good guess, Lib! Very, very nearly what happened. 
I called that too, in a way, and knew that Justin would be especially affected if Ben healed Norman.
For all the good it did Norman.
The TWOP Board has crashed and the carnycon.com chat is frozen with the volume.
Johnny, if you’re actually in LA, do us East Coasters have to wait for the West Coast to catch up with us or can we reveal spoilers now?
I moved from L.A. over a year ago. I kept my name though, because it’s the one I’ve been known by.
Since the Right Coast is three hours ahead of us out here on the Left, it’s probably okay to post spoilers; but I put the one I posted in a box because there are people who may have recorded it and haven’t seen it yet. Also, there may be people waiting for the 9:00 show. I thought it best if I boxed it.
The spoilers that really get up my nose are the ones for Survivor. Unlike Carnivale and Deadwood, we have to wait three hours to see the show. I hate it when I don’t notice the time and accidentally read a spoiler.
OK. Here goes:
[spoiler]I feel…strange. I was shocked at Jonesy’s (apparent) death, very very sad for poor heroic Norman, really pysched at the battle between Light and Dark and the way it turned out, and bummed at the end when Sofie perhaps healed Justin.
As for Sofie, Daniel Knauf has always insisted on the importance of free will. Sofie made her choice in the bedroom. She had all the clues to kill her father as she had promised Ben (Light) that she would; Justin tested her with the opportunity (part of his mindgames), and she chose NOT to kill him. She chose Dark. I don’t really think she knew what she was getting into, as her scream after the vision of herself shows, but she chose and now she’s on a path she can’t stop on. Sofie wouldn’t kill Jonesy, but the Omega can and did. Sofie would run away, but the Omega goes and heals Justin.
Now, Justin died. Really. Ben followed prophecy’s instructions exactly and the tree was sundered and splintered. But Sofie is at least trying to bring him back. And if she does, I think she will control her father, who may take another form.
I had a lot of quibbles–why weren’t the Okies rioting against the carnies or the Knights of Jericho right away? Why such an abrupt end to Jonesy? What of Lila and Lodz? What will happen to Libby? Didn’t Stumpy owe Impotent Guy over $800?
Oh well. If there’s a third season I’ll watch but Knauf promised it would be wrapped up tonight and a helluva lot wasn’t.[/spoiler]
When did Knauf promise it would be wrapped up?! There better be a third season because nothing was wrapped up. If anything, there are even more loose ends than the end of S1.
People on the west coast have the chance to view Carnivale with the people on the east coast. I know I watch it at 7, instead of waiting until 10. It would kill me to wait!
Having said that, I’ll use the spoiler box anyway
Jonesy! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
ahem
Agree with you there! Hmmmph.
Anyway, Knauf has said that in his Master Plan for the show, he has three two-season arcs mapped out. Arc One finished tonight. But I agree there are so many unanswered questions out there that I really hope there’s an s3. Even if they’re fooling around with us, I enjoy the journey. Usually.
The decision has not been made yet by HBO. It will be in June.
It’s a shame that Carnivà le never got big on the SDMB because I always enjoy discussing cool movies and TV shows with Dopers more than any other message board crowd. After a great season finale for the best show on TV, we have only three posts. 
Anyway, I hope Jonesy’s not really dead, especially after enduring the tarring and feathering incident, plus I feel bad for poor Libby. Since we just saw him shot and not actually dying, I think maybe he was just wounded. Hopefully the carnies will somehow find him and Ben will heal him.
One thing I noticed tonight was that when he was just a prince, Ben couldn’t control who died whenever he healed someone, but now that he’s a prophet, he can since he only took life (or energy or whatever) from Justin while doing the healings in the tent and he was able to take the wounded mother’s life and save her son after the ferris wheel accident.
I’m curious to see what damage control, if any, Justin concocts (assuming Sophie did revive him) to keep his congregation after running like a maniac in full prophet of darkness mode with his eyes black killing everyone in his way.
I thought it was a great season finale and despite the twist of Sophie turning to darkness and possibly bringing Justin back, I don’t feel cheated because we got to see Ben battle Justin and defeat him. I’d rather see the show throw an unexpected turn at the end of season two rather than stall and make us wait until next season. My biggest fear about tonights episode was that somehow, Ben and the carnies would have to leave New Canaan without killing Justin and we’d have to go through another dozen episodes of them chasing each other before seeing the big confontation. I’m glad that wasn’t the case. Besides, with a third season planned, there wouldn’t have been much of interest if Ben won and that was that.
The one thing bothering me about CarnivĂ le, though, is that it has such a rich mythology and fascinating characters and so much of that background has been explained only in the character bios at hbo.com and in chats and interviews with Daniel Knauf. I would love for Knauf to write a companion book to the show with the history of the avatars, including past ones, and details on the relationships between Lucius Belyakov, Lodz, Samson and Henry Scudder.
Since HBO had promised to stick with the show until the full story was told, I believe there will be a season three. They’re probably just making fans sweat it out to see how dedicated the fans are to the show.
I was greatly anticipating this episode as was my spouse, but when it was over we both were pretty let down. (I agree wholeheartedly with the disappointment about the circumstances involving a beloved character–sorry, I need to brush up on making spoiler boxes, so I’ll remain vague on who.)
It may have been because there have been so many great episodes this season, especially the last few, but this wasn’t one of them.
I watched it twice tonight and it does play better on the second viewing but still it didn’t carry the emotional wallop that I expected it would.
I agree that it’s shame that Carnivale never got big on SDMB. I think it’s worse that it didn’t catch on with much of the HBO audience.
I’m not feeling too confident about a third season, either.
If HBO was trying to attract viewers with this hugely-hyped yet vaguely unsatisfying episode, I really don’t think tonight’s show won too many converts.
That’s too bad, because looking at it overall, it’s a one-of-a kind show.
I’m keeping my fingers crossed that June brings good news about a third season.
I think I found how to say what I wanted without spoiling it for others not devoted enough to watch the last ep the very second it aired. 
I * hate* that they killed Jonsey. Considering his story arc in the last few eps, I feel like there was lots more use for the character if they make a season three. Unless it was simply to underline the irony of him saving Sophie from the burning trailer at the end of season one, how did it advance the storyline to have her kill him?
So Justin was just the usher, Sophie is the final prophet? 
I was also disappointed in this episode - not in the story line, but in the directing, editing and acting. The characters seemed to be wandering about aimlessly, waiting for someone to tell them what to do. I’ve always thought that the actor who plays Justin was a poor choice for the part; he can’t seem to generate the necessary intensity and menace unless they stick black contacts in his eyes.
You think Clancy Brown can’t generate intensity and menace?! Dude, that guy scares me when he’s drinking lemonade! “Oh, god what horrible thing is he going to do with that lemonade?”
It is awful that I was a little sad when Bro Justin died? I mean, I’m glad Ben killed him, but I have to admit, Bro Justin is one of my favorite characters on TV–mainly because he scares the hell out of me.
Well, most of my theories on the season was correct, except one. It looks as though Bro Justin is/was the Usher, and Sophie is the next dark Prophet. I thought, if anything, it would be the other way around.
Also, poor Norman. “The power of Christ compels you?” Come on! You had the balls to shoot him before, what the hell was that? He should have ran or something. I also was surprised that they left New Canaan. For some reason, I expected Ben to sorta take over the camp, since he was obviously the real deal and Bro Justin went in-fucking-sane on them. I think that would be kinda cool, if all of a sudden, Ben was leading all of those people and they all went up in arms against Iris and Sophie…
Hmmm, speaking of Iris, she had that vision of Justin raping Appelonia. Appy said that the power was always in Sophie, not the other way around. I at first assumed that Iris had her own power, and that’s how she saw the vision, but I guess Sophie’s power is like Justin’s and Ben’s. She has visions, can show others visions, and heal people…
I think Norman’s brief challenge allowed Ben to get away, so they didn’t just heal him for nothing.
It went pretty much as I thought it would - given the uncertainty of another season, they had to have the big battle and have Ben win, but leave it ambiguous in some manner. I was surprised at how they went about that, but the more I think about it, the more I see they laid the groundwork for Sofie’s decision all along.
If there is a third season, I do wonder what will drive the tension - since Justin and Ben each know who the other is and his approximate whereabouts. It will call for a very different approach.
I’m pretty confident that if there is another season, Jonesy will survive. But I imagine he’ll have an interesting time waking up next to Stroud.
Stroud: now there’s a menacing character. He manages to convey violence and psychosis even when lying unconscious. Quite a jump for the actor that played the bovine Norm in Fargo.
I don’t know how I feel about the finale. I thought I would care more. It’s my own fault.
I haven’t kept up with the mythology, so I didn’t have anything invested in whether the writers followed the rules that they had set up. I didn’t understand what they were. Shoulda studied, I guess.
I’ve liked bits and pieces of the characters, and some of the individual episodes, but as a whole, Carnivale didn’t work for me. I was never tempted to watch the repeats, because I couldn’t see that I’d learn anything that didn’t come through the first time.
But if there’s a third season, I’ll watch. I do love the way it looks.
Regarding that last scene with Sophie and Brother Justin. Remember that Sophie had sworn to kill her father…
and you can’t kill someone who’s dead.
Arghhh. Wouldn’t ya knowit, my cable went out last night (I missed Deadwood too!).
Could someone please post a brief synopsis of the finale? Thank you.
Honey
why bother? She already had her chance to kill him, and she didn’t take it. I doubt she woud shoot Jonesy in the heart so she could run over to Justin, revive him, and then kill him again.
Norman died without being in the thrall off Justin
Umm, the circumstances under which one of these types of people have to be killed are quite specific, as witnessed in the episode a couple weeks ago when Justin was advised on the proper way to kill Scudder. Ergo…
being dared to take a cut at Brother Justin was not within the rules. So of course Sophie wouldn’t kill him that way. It has to be a surprise in some way.