[spoiler]Sophie doesn’t know the rules. Nobody ever told her, and Ben only became aware of “the rules” of the game after he killed Management. At that point, with the straight razor in her hand, as far as she knew, she had the perfect oppurtunity to kill him, and she didn’t take it. She wouldn’t be concerned about special rules and avatars and prophets and whatever else because she simply didn’t know. Furthermore, it doesn’t have to be a surprise. In fact, it can’t be a surprise, otherwise, the new Prophet risks “madness or death.” Justin was taking a huge chance when he killed Scudder, and he knew it. If anything, Justin offering his neck would have been the perfect time to do it.
Furthermore, why kill Jonesy if her intent is to revive Justin to kill him again? Jonesy wouldn’t have given a fuck. He wasn’t in her way. Shoot, he might have helped her. I’m sorry, I just don’t think your theory makes any sense.[/spoiler]
I don’t think we need to use spoiler boxes for the Sofie stuff now, do we? It’s already out in the open in this thread.
At first I couldn’t figure why she didn’t slice Justin, and I found her turn to evil abrupt. But if you look back at her character from the very beginning it makes a demented kind of sense. The upshot is this: she has a big parent-shaped hole in her heart. Being introduced to Justin as a caring, forgiving father *figure * made it possible for her to accept him when she subsequently learned he was her actual father.
[spoiler]I’m not sure Sofie really realized that Justin was her father when she saw the tree tattoo in the bedroom, so she wouldn’t have had any reason to kill him. I don’t think it hit her until she had her vision in the cabin (a scene that gave me the chills).
Also, I’m don’t think Sofie actually healed Justin or brought him back to life. I don’t recall seeing anything that indicated Justin ever had the power to heal, so I’m not sure that’s even something his side has. Sofie was just absorbing power/knowledge from him – a least that’s my guess.
We still have the possibility that Sofie is pregnant after her encounter with Ben, which would mean a child that brings the two bloodlines together. That could be interesting.[/spoiler]
Love this show, used to post at Carivale.org until it’s forum went down, and the HBO forum is just too clogged. Anyway, heres my take:
Jonesy is dead . She shot him point blank in the heart. I hope he stays dead because I would hate to see Lodz take over his body. Shroud is alive, you could see him breathing, maybe Lodz will take him over .
Sofie was gathering up Brother Justins powers and knowledge when the cornfield died off. Bringing him back to life would not serve her evil purpose. Iris will see Sofie as she saw Justin.
Sofie and Ben represent the end of the ancient struggle. Their child (there will be a child) will represent the beginning of a new struggle, much like Adam and Eve learning the differance between good and evil. The trinity explosion of the A-Bomb will mark the beginning of this new era.
My favorite exchange is between Sampson and Ben. Sampson: “What if Jesus had gotten down from that Cross and spit in there eye! What would have wrong with that!” Ben: “That’s about the stupid’s thing I’ve ever heard!”
I just hope that HBO signs on for another season, best show I’ve seen since (dare I say) Star Trek in the sixties. :dubious:
Both the East Coast and Left Coast screenings have aired, and people who taped it have had a day to watch it. It’s probably a safe bet that anyone coming in here now would expect unboxed spoilers.
Welp, when Justin was going after Ben, he was gaining in strength by killing the Okies. Like Ben, he “moves life around,” except it always goes to him when it leaves someone else. I think Sophie was doing something with BJ’s body, sucking in its power or something, and the corn’s lifeforce got sucked in with it. But I’m probably way off.
One thing I was wondering is what will Ben do if Justin does come back? He no longer has his annointed dagger because the carnies left it stuck in Justin’s heart when they carried Ben away. So, Justin will have the sickle he earned his boon with and Ben’s dagger.
And for the love of God, let Jonesy be okay, if nothing else just so poor Libby doesn’t suffer anymore. The scene were Jonesy reassured Libby that he loves her was one of the sweetest in the entire series so far.
I also loved how liberated Ben seemed when he was openly healing all the Okies instead of doing it in some far off secluded area in secret. The music was perfect for the scene, which was genuinely moving and heartfelt. Ditto the scene when Ben exits the trailer after talking strategy with Samson and Jonesy and he’s met by all the carnies, who now know he’s “not just some kid from Milfay.”
Finally, LOL at Burly, the biggest prick in the carnival, being the one who tells Lila to “dry up already”!
I loved the hell out of the episode. I didn’t like some of the things that happened, like Norman and Jonesy’s deaths or Sophie turning evil, but I love Daniel Knauf’s ability to still surprise me. When Sophie shot Jonesy, my mouth hung open for at least ten seconds–no television show ever did that to me before. Besides, the fact that so much was left unanswered only increases the likelihood for a third season, which I’m definitely up for.
A friend and I were just talking about how on Earth they were going to keep it going for another season. I guess now I know.
This was a fantastic season; I can’t believe it’s over already.
I really want Jonesy to be OK, but I’m not getting my hopes up. It’s possible that the feelings that Sofie used to have for him kept her from leaving him there to die, or any number of other scenarios that allow him to come back.
Same story for Justin. It sure seemed like she was healing him, but the idea that she was assuming his powers works as well.
My guess is that in the first episode or two of next season we get back some combination of Jonesy, Justin, and Lodz.
OK, my two cents : Jonesy is not okay.
The Omega (she is no longer Sophie) needed to kill him to be able to revive the Usher.
There was no other reason for her to shoot Jonesy.
The Omega has both Justin’s and Ben’s powers.
She is pregnant with Ben’s baby.
Lodz will take over Jonesy’s dead body.
A new player will be introduced early in the next season.
Ben is the new management.
So…
I’m still deeply confused about a lot of this.
This is one of those shows where characters’ backstories are so beautifully written that those of us without the full story have a lot of “huh?” moments.
I’m thinking that the “usher” might have been literally “ushering” in the thing that was Sophie. He was the John the baptist, to her Christ. No?
The last shot of ben lying in management’s little Punch and Judy box was probably setting the scene for the next series.
Has Ben got anything from Justin, the way that he got a boon from Scudder?
I very rarely predict show endings correctly, but as soon as I saw Jonesy packing up with Ben to head out to New Caanan with him (was that three weeks ago?) I knew he was going to die. There’s a very full-circle feeling to the idea that Ben found him left for dead, and saved him, and then Jonesy dies trying to help Ben. I liked his character but hope they don’t have Ben heal him again.
Bad thought. Sofie now has two avatar blood soaked blades and Ben has none! Not a good thing.
The cornfield dying was caused by the gates of hell opening up and taking Justin.
Also, I think that Sofie will rejoin the carnivale in order to get close to Ben. Perhaps she will wait until the child is born to make an attempt on him. Ben may be laid up in the management trailer for a while, making it hard for her to get to him.
Everyone still believes that she is good and one of thier own, she will play that to her advantage and cause alot of conflict in the carnivales inner circle.
Oh the possibilities! What to do until next season . . .
Personally, I think this is the best explanation I’ve seen - good job!
I think Iris actually walked in on Justin as he was raping Appolonia - she didn’t see it in a vision. She remembered it when Sophie mentioned that her mother was a fortune teller.
Scudder (evil) fathered Ben (good).
Management (good) fathered Justin (evil) who fathered Sophie (good?).
Sofie appears to have the free will to use her powers for evil, but it seems that she should have healing powers. Justin needed more than healing though. He was supposedly dead. Was Jonesy’s life taken to bring back Justin? Is it even possible to bring back a prophet? Management “ascended”. Shouldn’t Justin just “descend”?
I agree with most of what everyone has been saying, and hope this show comes back for a 3rd and 4th season, although this is surely going to change the dynamics of the Carnivale if they know they have a real live healer travelling with them. Won’t that make it impossible to have normal carnie life as we have seen for the past two seasons?
And was I the only one who couldn’t see a damned thing for 1/3 of the episode because it was all too dark on the screen? …maybe I just need to reset my television…
If Ben is the new management, I hope that doesn’t mean he’ll hide in Management’s trailer all day behind the curtains.
Lila: Where’s Hawkins?
Samson: Why?
Lila: I looked in the trailer and no one was there.
Samson: If The Man don’t wanna be seen, he ain’t gonna be seen.
I’ve been wondering, as others on this thread have too, if Ben received any sort of boon from defeating Justin. If so, he should be more powerful than Management was because he accomplished what the old Russian couldn’t–kill the avatar of darkness. Also, Management had telekinetic powers like Scudder and Justin (remember when he slammed the door to keep Ben from walking out on their meeting when Ben learned his destiny and made the trailer shake?), so why doesn’t Ben? Or has he just not learned how to use them?
Ben recieved his boon when management tricked him into killling him (management) in the trailer while Scudder watched.
I can’t remember his name, but the lacky that was telling Justin about the boon told him in the previous episode that his rival had recieved his boon when his (Justin’s) tatoo changed color.
Sorry, but I’m a Carnivale freak and remember everything Carnivale.
The question now is: Has Sofie recieved her boon with the death of Justin? :dubious: She now has two avatar soaked blades . . . Ben and Justins blood. What does that mean? :eek:
Count me as someone who LOOOOOOOOVES Carnivale, I really hope they bring it back. HBO won’t announce it until June though. I really hope so, I’ve aquired such a crush on Nick Stahl (Ben). I found out he’s dating Carla Gallo (Libby) IRL. They make such a cute couple!
I think Sophie will be pregnant in the next season which should really start giving her extra powers (maybe that’s what we’re beginning to see with the cornfield dying) because her child will have Ben and Sophie blood. I also hope they bring back Justin and Jonsey. I guess I’ll wait (im)patiently until June.
. She shot him point blank in the heart. I hope he stays dead because I would hate to see Lodz take over his body. Shroud is alive, you could see him breathing, maybe Lodz will take him over 
.