I’m not the best one to start a Carnivale thread but since no one else has done it, here goes.
I usually have to watch an episode twice to make sense of it, but I have to say that I loved Sofie and Ben in this episode. Anyone who has ever made love/had sex in a car on a warm summer night had to feel something.
It was cool how the blessed rain stopped as soon as Brother Justin’s voice came over the radio.
I was disappointed that BJ gave Tommy Dolan up, even though everyone guessed that’s what would happen.
What’s up with Iris then? She says she won’t be sacrificed, and now she’s mad at BJ for not being sacrificed. She wanted to die for him?
Poor Jonesy was having a bad night, wasn’t he? First a brawl with Stumpy, then catching Ben & Sofie?
I pretty much expected Dolan to be something of a pawn a few episodes ago. Justin is pretty much using anyone in his path as stepping stones to power. Still, my husband and I predicted exactly what would happen, and when it did, we couldn’t help but sing, “We are the smart! S-M-R-T!”* He’s going to protect Iris. He needs her–if he didn’t see her as useful, she would have been sent down the river.
I don’t know about the Ben and Sofie thing. I guess it’s because I get a Luke Skywalker/Princess Leia vibe from them, if you know what I mean. How many think she’s heading off to California, to heed the call of Brother Justin?
Great episode. Sofie and Ben in the car was extremely sexy. But it’s a little scary that she has an orgasm and the thunderstorm suddenly hits! (New cure for the dust bowl?)
I had pretty much figured the Dolan twist out, because he was writing down the confession in first person form. Though a part of me though Brother Justin might try to pin it on Norman. (And doesn’t it look like Norman is coming out of the stroke, but doesn’t want Justin to know? Man, the layers in this show).
The one thing I really noticed in this episode is that Ben seems more “grown up” – less like the confused boy and more like an adult who knows what to do. Even physically, Nick Stalh seems to be playing him more mature.
Is she mad because BJ messed with her or is she mad because she had a thing for Dolan? (at least until BJ returned from his sabatical) Along that same line, was her punishment being messed with or was it losing Dolan?
Stumpy sure seems to be hitting a low point. Last season I really liked his character and didn’t have much sympathy for Rita Sue. They’ve done a good job of turning that around this year.
Lodz reappeared… sort of. That should convince Lila that Lodz really is dead. That won’t be good for Sampson.
Ben and Sofie made it rain! Did he help take Apollonia out of her head too?
We finally got to see the Daily brothers’ show, or what was left of it. The Carnivale picked up two new acts in the process.
Does anyone think that Stroud waited around long enough to snag Sofie? She would be pretty useful against Ben. Stroud had to have seen them together.
Thanks for starting this thread, AuntiePam. New Carnivale threads have been sadly lacking this season.
I think Stroud is too busy going after Ben. Stroud’s real intent is getting Scudder and bringing him back to Justin. As per what Justin told him (paraphrased): “the boy may lead you to the man.” Sofie’s not important to Stroud in this case.
I missed the show, so it may already have been covered, but can anyone tell me what’s to stop Tommy Dolan from telling the whole story? Is it jsut that he’s not likely to be believed?
When Tommy wrote down Iris’ confession, in the first person, Justin did his little bit of mojo (just like when he was doing his time in the psych ward in the first season), and was able to manipulate what Tommy wrote. There’s a full confession, signed by Mr. Dolan himself. Between that and the word of Brother Justin? No one will believe the real story.
I dunno, this episode seemed to be alot of “filler” (or at least it wasn’t as entertaining). The fight scene was way too long (where was Sampson?) and the story lines are starting to lose some juice. I still love the show, and can’t wait for next week.
But there’s something about this season that’s different from last… It seems like Ben’s personality is different (I suppose he’s no longer the “new guy”). Perhaps it’s that the characters in stoylines are all interacting only with each other and there is much less overall Carniavle interaction as a whole…mmmm… maybe not. Ah well, am still wondering:
a) Will Stumpy rob someone for the money he owes? Or did he ‘lose’ the $400 but is now “even” with his bookie? Does anyone know, is he paid up? Or does he have anyone on his tail?
b) Is BJ keeping Norman around for a reason? A suffication by pillow would ease any way to ease any potential threat there.
c) If management is the Russian Soldier (originally on an assassination mission of Scudder), is it a race between Justin and Management (who’s been myseriously absent the past few episodes) to kill Scudder? If so, is Ben being manipulated? Does been have any idea why they’re looking for Scudder (other than Management saying, “bring him to me” and that it’s his father)?
d) Already asked, but is Sophie headed West?
e) Is there a “sleeper” character that will still emerge yet this season to be an integral part of the fate of mankind (and not a side story, i.e., Jonesy, Libby, Lila… or Lodz?)
At the time of the fire, Tommy Dolan wasn’t even aware of Brother Justin or his ministry. He must have some kind of alibi.
Iris was so thinking castration when she was chopping that carrot.
Are we to think that screwing Sophie wasn’t a “sin” because he actually cares about her and sees a future with her? Unlike his feelings for Ruthie.
I loved the elephant walking up next to Stumpy while he was peeing. I kept thinking that he was mentally doing a comparison and realized he came up way short.
Doubtful. Remember how Brother Justin and Dolan met. Dolan was pretending to be a vagrant, looking for a story. As far as alibis go, “I was wandering the back roads of California like a common bum” isn’t the best.
See, the Ben/Sofie scene bothered me for exactly this reason. Ben is just a fucking puritan that he freaked out when he had sex with Ruthie. It always seemed to me that he had a very strict idea of what was Right and what was Wrong, and never the twain shall meet.
On the other hand, he killed a man–so obviously the twain DOES meet. Also this season he’s been acting more like an adult. Last year he was standoffish, frightened, anti-social, and confused. He fell in with a bunch of freaks, his crazy mother died instead of allowing him to touch her, and he was wanted for murder–he also learned that he could do a whole lot of runnin’, but he couldn’t get away from his destiny. So maybe he’s looking at his relationship with Sofie like a man instead of like a child.
(If I had written Star Wars, I would have had Luke get Leia pregnant and then find out she is his sister. She would go off to some remote world, Luke would be killed by Vader, and Luke and Leia’s offspring would be ‘the new hope’.)
A. I think the money issue will hang around for the while as it allows for various events and possible betrayels
b. I think that Justin enjoys his offhand torturing of norman and sharing his secrets with someone that he thinks can do nothing about it. Remember that this was Justins superior, and turning the tables is part of his “coming out”
C. Well, of course Ben is being manipulated, but possibly for a good cause. It is Bens understanding that he must find scudder and not allow Justin access to him because armageddon/the fate of the world is at stake. He doesn’t want to be involved, but he is, so is only participating for this reason.
D. Wouldn’t you like to know where sofie is going
E. I think that Sofie herself is the biggest sleeper character. I think that she will play a huge part in the things to come.
I don’t know about the Ben and Sofie thing. I guess it’s because I get a Luke Skywalker/Princess Leia vibe from them, if you know what I mean. QUOTE]
I agree. It was scary them having sex. It is also my take that Sofie’s mom was trying to stop them. I didn’t think the show was going to go there, but they did. What will they think later if they find out they are half- siblings?
I don’t know if any of the cops or detectives are going to think twice about Dolan confessing and then claiming he was set up. They should, but they probably won’t.
I can see BJ manipulating Dolan to suicide, and tying up that loose end.
Not sure. There is a theory running around that Scudder = The Tree Man. Considering that The Tree Man is supposedly the father of Sofie (as he had raped Appalonia), then it gives them the possibility of being half-siblings.
Management/The Russian is almost certainly the father of Justin and Iris. We know for sure that they have the same last name anyway.
Scudder is the father of Ben. They were strongly implying that he is also the father of Sophie (different mothers). On one hand I kind of doubt that they would have siblings have such hot sex but then again there is lots of sexual tension between Justin and Iris.
Scudder and Justin are evil. Management and Ben are good. It seems that evil/good skips generations.
Speculation:
Sophie is on her way to California to follow Justin maybe carrying Ben’s child. Now the forces of evil can hold Sophie hostage to hurt Ben. Will Ben save the woman he loves or the world?
I don’t think Scudder is the tree man. I got the impression there are three different beings. Child of Darkness, Child of Light, and the Usher–Scudder, Management, and the tree guy that’s been in everybody’s dreams. Since Justin has probably not heard of the Child of Darkness–and even if he knew of it he would never assume it’s him! he’s a man of god after all–he assumes he’s the Usher. All he knows is that he has to kill Scudder–but that might so he can become the CoD, if Scudder is indeed the CoD. I got the impression from Samson’s speech at the beginning of the series that he is and he rejected his role, thus upsetting the balance and wreaking unintentional havoc (like causing the Depression and driving most (all?) people who come in contact with mad).
