Carnivale: Lonnigan, Texas (SPOILERS)

Cafe Society
#1

–Anyone recognize John Doe right off the bat and know Ben was going to get screwed?

–So they’re giving Brother Justin shock treatments. This seems to have intensified his psychic powers, though. He can now read minds, it seems.

–Was that visions of the Crusades that Ben had when he touched that ring? Where have we seen that emblem before?

–Rita Sue tried to pimp out Sofie, but at least had the heart to comfort the kid and realize she didn’t want to make the same mistake. Maybe she’s not so bad, though I did not think it was cool to draw Sofie in at all, and I think Felix is pretty sick of her shit too.

–I was really hoping Sofie and Libby were going to kiss in this one. Maybe I’m the only one who sees it, but there’s something brewing between those two. Or maybe I’m just trying to spice the show up in my tawdry little mind.

–When directly asked, Justin does not claim to be working for God, most emphatically. However, when asked if he works for Satan, he also says no, though not as emphatically. Well, who DOES he get his powers from?

–Jonesy and Rita Sue… that’s not going to go well, methinks. I see them having some horribly ill-fated clandestine affair that ends in grief, especially since I don’t think Rita Sue has it in her to love anyone. If anything, she craves the nookie and the attention and wants to make Felix jealous. Poor Jonesy is the one whose heart I worry about… and other parts of him too.

–OK, so we’ve seen, I mean, heard, Management as a disembodied voice. Lodz was talking to It about Hack Scudder. Does that mean that my pet theory that Hack Scudder is Management is blown outta the water? What the hell IS Management? Will we ever know, or will he be like Charlie in Charlie’s Angels, just this disembodied voice forever?

–What do people make of the fact that Management is talking avidly to Lodz? I find it troubling. I also wonder if Management is a ghost, and how well Its nature is known to Lodz.

–Apparently Scudder was in the same weird fraternity that Boffo is/was in. Clues as to that meaning?

#2

We’ve seen the Mason symbol in Ben’s dream sequences.

Well, looks like Carnivale is back to being boring! Only knew it would be a matter of time.

#3

Could you elaborate on when we saw the Mason symbol? I cannot quite remember when this happened.

Yes, this ep had little plot advancement, but next ep looks pretty interesting. But that’s just me, and I’m hooked, so…

#4

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I didn’t recognize him in particular but I figured he was misleading Hawkins.

**

I don’t think that’s a result of the treatments. I think it’s the result of the vision he received while contemplating jumping off the bridge. He now realizes what he is. I’m sure the shock treatments haven’t helped.

**

Beats the hell outta me.

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God I hope not. Not that I have a problem with it on any moral level I just don’t see why it is necessary. Maybe a couple of heterosexuals can just have a nice deep friendship without a physical relationship.

I don’t remember Ben ever escaping a chain gang or killing anyone.

Marc

#5

Ben had a leg iron with a broken chain on his ankle in the very first episode. Jonsesy and Samson argued about whether or not to bring him along because of it. The wanted poster is the first we’ve seen (that I remember) of why Ben’s on the lam. No good deed goes unpunished.

Ick moment of the night: Jonsesy’s knee.

#6

[hijack]

OK, fiddlesticks, you just outed yourself as a healthy person. Take it from a multi-scarred person, having someone that not only accepts but embraces your scars without getting “icked” is a huge, and unfortunately rare, turn on. I liked Rita Sue in that moment.
[/hijack]

#7

Did you get the little John Doe joke? When the doctor is interviewing Justin and asks his name, Justin doesn’t answer and the doctor says, “Doe… Can I call you John?” Cute, eh?

He certainly seems more psychic to me, or maybe as you said he’s just more aware of his powers.

re: Sofie and Libby as a couple

I have no problem with platonic same-sex friendships… but then again, who does? I see sexual tension there, but again, YMMV.

I guess I’ll have to check through the tapes to see where I saw that Mason symbol…

#8

I certainly didn’t see last night as boring! and I don’t know how much spicier we can get than Lodz and Lila insert fanning smiley here And Management spoke! Of course, I’ve been watching every episode twice, and this one definitely bears a re-viewing. The ring emblem was actually more a sign of the Knights Templar, one of the leading groups among the Crusaders in the 10th-11th centuries. When the Knights Templar were forced to disband, some seem to think that parts formed what has become the Masons; I don’t know if that is true or not. The Masons are an extremely secretive organization, though.

Brother Justin does seem to be more powerful; he’d certainly be out of that sanitarium if he availed himself of all his powers, imho. Poor Jonesy! But wasn’t Rita Sue tender with him?!

I have to admit, I was floored that Lodz was in there talking with Management. I’m wondering what this will mean now for Samson, as he apparently is wondering as well. The previews for next week look quite excellent. I so look forward to this show every week!

#9

I have always attributed sinister motives to Lodz, and Ben’s dream that the bear belong to Lodz reinforced that. I’m worried for Samson too; Management choosing to talk to Lodz and shut him out does not bode well. Any idea why Lodz is so damn obsessed with Ben?

I agree with tarragon: I think the emblem on the ring is a Templar symbol. That would jibe with the horrible images of medieval death and destruction that Ben saw when he touched the ring. The Templars were Crusaders who came to a rather horrific end, but not sure how that connects with the rest of the story. Hack Scudder is of course somehow involved…

Rita Sue was very sweet to Jonesy and perhaps a little more warm than is totally professional. I think Felix really opened a can of worms there; if he still loves her, I can’t imagine what he was thinking, though I’m not sure that their marriage can recover from Dora Mae’s death. Despite that, I think Felix is going to be mightily peeved at Rita Sue going sweet on Jonesy; there must be carny rules about such things.

Overall, I didn’t think this was a boring episode either. The previews for next ep look quite interesting too.

#10

Did anyone else recognize the voice of Management? To me, it sounded like the voice of Linda Hunt.

#11

Enough of Ma and Pa Pimp and Jonesy (unless his other leg is getting busted by a baseball bat). I can’t stand them and they bore the hell out of me.

I want to see more Justin, more Lodz (but only being evil, I don’t need to know that Lodz really loves hair in his mouth), and more all-around general creepy stuff.

#12

Ben in the Wanted poster…did I miss something in the first episodes? I thought his mother died and he grudgingly joined the Carnivale…I don’t recall him murdering anyone or being in a chain gang.

And where did Samson get that keychain with the same symbol as the other guy had on his ring - which Samson didn’t seem to recognize at the time?

Geez…for a show that moves along slower than a glacier, I sure as hell seem to be missing a lot…

#13

I love Lodz’ hat.

#14

Oh, and that most of the hot sex happens with the chubby gals.

#15

Ben had a shackle on his ankle in the first episode with no explanation. Nice little pay-it-forward moment when he helps the Okie, who takes down his poster. He must be an escapee from a chain gang, so it’s no wonder he joined the circus.

As for Samson and the key ring, I think Samson knows a hell of a lot more about Hack Scudder than he’s letting on, as evidenced in the preview where he tells Ben he can either talk to him or Lodz. Samson often plays dumb (as he did when Ben showed him the picture of his mother at Big Sky Farms). I’m not sure why he has to hide his knowledge about Scudder, but he too seems to be interested in that info (his last question to Stangler in Babylon was about Scudder).

#16

WAG here- is it possible Samson -is- / was Scudder? It seems unlikely- but… I don’t know. I can’t think of a reason it -couldn’t- be true…

Okay, the show’s got me with a million theories in my head, so sue me! :smiley:

#17

The ring was a Templar ring. Whether or not Masons originate from the Knights Templar is a subject for another thread. However there is a branch of Masonry called the York Rite wherein the Knights Templar is the highest degree that may be obtained.

#18

I’ve noticed the apparent sexual tension between them as well. On more than one occasion I’ve expected them to kiss, but it’s possible they might just be becoming really close friends. Has it gotten to the point where it’s no longer possible to examine a close relationship between any two non-relatives without seeing an underlying sexual dynamic?

At any rate, early on it looked like they were setting things up for romance between Sofie and Ben, but since it’s becoming more and more apparent that they’ve likely got the same daddy, it’s just as well that never materialized.

#19

That’s an easy one; he wants control over Ben and the power he wields, though the reasons why remain unclear. It seems Lodz tried the same thing with Scudder and likely killed him out of frustration over his inability to control him.

#20

I really don’t understand why noticing sexual tension between characters automatically means that it’s impossible to watch people get close without thinking of sex. I never thought, for instance, that Sofie and Ben were going to hook up. No chemistry. Sofie and Libby, however, do have chemistry, and that’s probably because it was written that way. Us noticing it doesn’t mean that no one can watch two people get close without thinking SEX.

Where are you getting this from?

Also, why do you think Lodz killed Scudder? I have the distinct impression that Management knows all about Scudder and wants Ben to know too, so I don’t think Lodz killed him.