Catching Hell - The Story of Steve Bartman

The Game Room
1

Interesting ESPN documentary about Steve Bartman, the infamous Cubs fan who tried to catch a foul ball and has been blamed for continuing the Cubs curse of not winning a championship since 1908(?)

Since the Dope is based in Chicago, I was wondering what folks there really feel about Bartman, is he still a topic of conversation, and if anyone actually knows him…

Also, if you aren’t from Chicago, what you remember about him, what you felt about him, and any other thoughts that come to mind.

As for me, watching the show brought back the feelings of anger I had when the incident happened. I am a Pirates fan, so I have my own issues with summer failure and futility, but I have a soft spot for the Cubs since I love Wrigley Field, and their fans have never been able to enjoy a World Series vicotory. I was able to enjoy 1971 qnd 1979. I can’t imagine anyone is left alive who remembers the Cubs last one.

Why was I angry? Because Bartman made me angry. I wasn’t mad at him for trying to catch the ball… Hell I would have done the same thing and so would have most everyone else that has ever gone to a baseball game. Add to that it was the 8th inning, the Cubs were winning 3-0 at the time, and were 5 outs away from going to the World Series, who WOULDN’T want a souvenir ball from that historic game? So I wasn’t mad at him for going for the ball.

I think what drove me crazy was his behavior afterwards. Just sitting there like a little kid, with his headphones on, ignoring what was going on around him. Everyone in that section was standing except for him, and he was so detached from what was going on around him.

If he would have stood up and barked at a few folks barking at him, I think that would have been the end of it. But when the mob smells blood, they go after it. He had no fight in him at all, and he allowed himself to be bullied out of that stadium, as if he actually did something wrong.

There were at least 4 other people who were reaching for that ball, and any one of them could have been blamed for what happened. Unfortunately, the ball hit Bartman, and to his credit, he never denied it. But he could have. I saw the replay 20 times tonight, and I still couldn’t tell who deflected the ball, although yes, I could narrow it down to him and a few others.

I do t know. I wasn’t there and I certainly could be wrong. But he seemed so meek, so wimpish, that everyone tuned up on at least one cup of liquid courage felt that they could take him. And his friends seemed to have deserted him, so he looked all alone. A perfect target.

I’m still annoyed at Bartman for not coming out over the years to make money from appearances or speeches, product endorsements or whatever else would come his way as a result of the incident. He deserves it. Instead, he has quietly disappeared into the Chicago background, still living there apparently, but only a select few know where. What an ultra-wimp! Does he actually believe his life would be in danger now? If so, that’s too bad, because Chicago fans, and baseball fans in particular, are apt to forgive. And if he can’t live a normal life in Chicago, why is he still there? Stand up for yourself, man! I don’t know what he does for a living, but I can’t imagine he’s making a lot of money in a hi profile job, or people would be able to track him down.

I say, grow some balls and a backbone, and get out there to claim what’s yours, Bartman! You deserve every dollar you can make on this situation. You have permitted yourself to live in hell for what, 15-20 years now? It’s time to take back what has been taken from you!

Your thoughts, feelings or memories are appreciated.

MODS: I had no idea where to put this, so this seemed like as good a place as anywhere. If you want to move it, please feel free.

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I guess not everyone can be a big bad tough guy when there are tens of thousands of angry inebriated people throwing stuff at them. I don’t think that makes you a wimp.

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Did you see it? You didn’t need to be a big bad tough guy. All he needed to do was stand up with the others that were around him… Not one person around him was giving him crap. He just seemed oblivious to everything happening around him… If he was standing like the rest of the stadium, I doubt people would have even been able to single himself out so easily.

I’m not going to say he deserved it, because NO ONE deserves to be treated like that. But in many ways he was his own worst enemy.

4

Bartman did not cost them the game. He did not do anything but prevent 1 out. It was the Cubs giving up 8 RUNS IN ONE INNING that cost them the game and a chance at the World Series. Even with the out the Cubs would have had to get four more without GIVING UP 8 FREAKING RUNS IN ONE INNING! Everything else is just whinny butthurt from Cubs fans who have trouble acdcepting that the club just sucks.

5

I have little to add to what I posted here in an earlier thread on Catching Hell, except to emphasize Point#3 with respect to the identification of Bartman.

I despise the Cubs, so Bartman is OK in my book, except that he’s a Cubs fan, so . . . well, he can take care of himself.

6

Agree with everything you said. In fact, their shortstop ( name escapes me at the moment) dropped a perfect double play ball that would have gotten the Cubs out of e inning and NOBODY seems to remember that or want to remember that. It seems as if everyone kind of enjoyed getting on the Bartman Sucks bandwagon. It was and still is one of the mot truly bizarre things I’ve ever seen.

Thank you for the link. As you can guess, I am so far behind the times that I didn’t even know this was aired before I saw it just recently. And here there is a Pit thread on the subject that is what, 6 months old already and run its course? I’m embarrassed. Pathetic!

Eta : even worse! Thread was started in 9/2011!

7

Agreed, just as Bill Buckner didn’t lose the 1986 Series for the Red Sox and Curt Flood didn’t lose the 1968 Series for the Cardinals.

Although as a Cardinal fan, I know in my heart of hearts that Don Denkinger DID lose the 1985 Series for the Cardinals!

8

Totally agree - hell, I’m not even 100% sure that Alou would have been able to catch that ball. Bottom line is, that team totally lost its composure after that play. Gonzalez kicked an easy double play ball that would have gotten them out of the inning. And Baker probably left Prior in that game a little too long, as well as in game 2 earlier in the series when they had the game well in hand. It pisses me off to think of that game, even 10 years later.

9

I didn’t see the show, but from your description I’d be angry at everybody except Bartman. I put my blame and scorn on the bullies, rather than the one being bullied.

10

I don’t think Baker left Prior in too long. He was still pitching great when Gonzalez booted the double play ball.

I played shortstop in HS and college, and although there are never any sure things, that was as sure an out as I’ve ever seen. The DP was almost assured, assuming the toss to second and relay to first were standard, with no errors… There wouldn’t have even been a rush to complete the play. Each time a ball is hit, the thing I go by is the last bounce before the defensive player touches it. In this case, the ball hops up so perfectly for Gonzales, that I am convinced “I” could have made the play, forcing out the runner at second. I will also state that unless the second baseman made a throwing error, or the first baseman dropped the ball, this a double play and the inning is over.

I am NOT major league caliber, and even I can state with authority that that ball was as nice a ground ball anyone will ever get to turn two. The ball hops up, just below the shoulder, and it hit him right in the glove. How that play was overshadowed by Bartman I don’t know, but I can guess.

Based on the coverage that Fox (I think) did on TV for that game, they must have shown the replay of the Bartman play 50 times. And every chance they got that inning, they focused in on Bartman, not on Gonzalez. I think they blew it up more than anyone, and were to blame for things getting out of hand.

11

I wonder if his surname is really Bartman now.

12

My uncle is a serious Cubs fan, been known to be quite caustic in his remarks about FAULT. Talk to him about it, he’ll tell you Bartman had NOTHING to do with it. Blame Alex Gonzalez, blame Alou for assuming that the ball was actually catchable, blame the manager for not pulling Prior, blame the whole team for not being able to come back, especially given that there was a game 7 yet to come–don’t blame Bartman.

One data point. I’m not a Cubs fan, though I was surely rooting for them that night, but if he can manage to be forgiving I expect he’s right.

I’ll have to look into the documentary…sounds interesting.

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Fine question. I wonder if anyone on the boards knows him, since he’s from Chicago. I know that’s a huge city, but you never know.

I personally think ESPN did a terrible job telling the story. They must have shown the replay in all its glory 40-50 times, with analysis, people erased out of frame, etc, so you could see that it was his hand/ arm that hit it.

The weird thing is, not many people inside the park knew exactly who hit it, and Wrigley was the only field left in MLB without a jumbotron, so replays weren’t available. It was only when the replays were shown over and over, and a guy with a TV on Waverly Ave. was showing the crowd outside when the “asshole!” chant began.

That guy with the TV couldn’t do that now, with no TV signals being sent through the air that rabbit ears can grab.

One thing that’s cool about it is that he will be remembered in Cubs history forever. You can’t tell the story of the Cubs without dedicating a paragraph or two to the Bartman incident.

I’m sure he doesn’t see it that way, but you have to look for that silver lining, personally, I would have cashed in long ago with the money offers and book deals and whathaveyou tht he turned down. Imagine if he was a good public speaker what kind of inspirational message he could tell people about persevering? The business world would pay him a fortune on the lecture circuit.

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I don’t think he is in hiding because he’s afraid. I would gather that he’s smarter than you think. The way Steve Bartman is handling this is pure genius. The second he does an interview or receives any money his legend will be over and he will be nothing more than a fan that was a small part of the cubs losing game6.With his silence and the fact he doesn’t want to be found or profit from it will make his name and the mystic ora of him live on forever in sports. Especially in Chicago.

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We’re approaching the tenth anniversary of the Bartman Incident, so brace yourselves for a flood of flashbacks. Comcast Sports will be airing a show on the 2003 Cubs on October 15.

16

This is textbook victim-blaming. The fault lies with the people who were throwing stuff at him, not with Bartman, and there was no reasoning with those idiots after the game turned. That’s why security got him the fuck out of the stadium.

I think he knows better than you do.

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What? You are just getting around to this thread? I posted it in May! Jesus, I forgot all about it.

It’s not textbook victim blaming. (What textbook, by the way?). I said then and I say now, NO ONE deserved what happened to Bartman, no one. I did say, though, that he was his own enemy for sitting there with his headphones on, looking out at the field, and never once even turning to his “friends” who where there with him and saying “what the hell is going on?”

I think if Bartman would have kept standing, like everyone else did when it happened, looked around, and acted like he didn’t touch it, no one would have known WHO to blame. You cannot tell from the replay who touches the ball. You just can’t. There are too many arms in the air, and the only way people singled Bartman out was because he was sitting there like a little kid who got yelled at for walking in front of his dad’s TV at the wrong moment.

My comments were based on just seeing the Bartman special. It was my reaction to the show after watching it. Its revisionist thinking ion my part. In no way did I blame him then, and is don’t blame him now. When I said he was his own worst enemy, it was because he, more than anyone else, pointed the finger at one person to be the scapegoat. It was him. The guy sitting down in his seat looking guilty. Then the mob mentality took over, and absolutely they did the right thing by getting him the hell out of there.

Clearly, that was his personality, and clearly, he doesn’t have to apologize for being who he is. I just wish now, as I did in May, that he would have milked this for all it was worth, and made his money off of his infamy. He deserves it for all the shit he went through and how his life changed after that.

You are right though, Marley. He would know if his life is in danger more than I would. But if his life is truly in danger at this point, I’d be amazed. If someone wanted to harm him, they would have done it long ago. He’s easy enough to find.

No one wants to kill him now. I doubt if anyone would boo him. The Cubs should let him throw out the first pitch like the Sox did with Buckner. Let the man move on with his life.

Maybe Chicago fans should be angry at ownership for having one of the greatest fanbases in all of sports, one of the best stadiums in the country to watch a game, and have big pockets to spend on players, and they still can’t get into the playoffs.

Bartman was a victim of the time. Those who remember him would not attack him verbally or otherwise, IMO. If there are still people out there that Bartman fears, that’s just sad.

18

Maybe no one wants to kill him now, but I can see resentment and harassment continuing well beyond a mere 10 years. A movie theater in Kentucky or somewhere in the south just recently made the news because they refused to show a movie Jane Fonda was in, I think it was The Butler, over something that happened over 30 years ago. And every time she makes the news, I check the comment section and there is a vicious amount of slander and hatred directed at her. I’m sure her death will bring out more trolls to glory at her finally going to hell or some shit like that.

Point is, don’t ever underestimate the stupidity or hatred of people and how low they can sink

19

You know, you are right. Underestimating the stupidity of people is a dangerous practice. Good grief, Jane Fonda?

20

I don’t think this is it at all, but maybe you are right. He just seems to be a quiet guy, who doesn’t want to be in the spotlight. Ever. But especially over something that many people believe cost the Cubs a trip to the World Series. That’s a heavy burden to carry, and if you are a huge a un fan like Bartman supposedly is, he is also probably crushed inside that he could have cost his favorite team that WS trip.

But who really knows bit Bartman? He will be a piece of Cub lore no matter what he does, because the cubs are not close to being a playoff team and that playoff appearance was their last. He now has a decade between him and the incident. That’s enough time to cement it in as part of the curse of the billy goat or whatever they call it.

I can’t believe its only been 10 years. I thought this was much longer ago, based on how ingrained into my mind it is.