Just because you know a married person is carrying on with someone else is not proof that the spouse is wronged or unknowledgeable of the relationship.
Gee, did any one see that Friends episode where Joey made his dad stop the affair and his mom got pissed at him? This happens in real life too.
Another strong ethical basis is the Golden Rule. If your wife (perish the thought) were cheating on you, would you prefer to know or to have it kept a secret?
But, by that token, you’d probably prefer absolute evidence instead of a slew of innuendoes and coincidences.
My suggestion- bring your evidence to the attention of his wife. It’s possible, no matter how strong the evidence is, that there’s a non-‘cheating’ explanation for the entire thing (even if you caught her in flagrante delicto- maybe it’s an ‘open’ marriage). And better to have her give the explanation to you than have Mr. Friend go off on a rampage over incorrect information you gave him.
But definitely get involved. Once you got hit in the face with the evidence (and given what I’m assuming your “documentary evidence” is, that’s pretty durned disgusting to get hit in the face with), you become a co-conspirator should you choose to keep silent.
Let’s look at this from a strictly Utilitarian point of view (as I am wont to do).
(1) We have an illicit sexual relationship. It apparently doesn’t bother the wife, her lover, or (since he doesn’t know) her husband.
(2) In fact, it makes both the wife and her lover happier (presumably). In the immediate sense, therefore, the affair is a good thing.
(3) The danger for your friends and their happiness comes from the possibility that the affair will be discovered.
(4) Given that this is not altogether unlikely, and that the results would be severe, it is not ethically unreasonable for you to take action. Telling the husband, however, is probably the worst thing you can do. All that that ensures is that the anguish of learning of his wife’s affair which he might suffer as things stand will become anguish that he will certainly suffer.
Based on these points, my suggestion is as follows: Confront the wife. Tell her that if she does not break off her affair you will tell the husband. If she refuses, or if you suspect that she has continued the affair, do nothing and hope for the best. There have been countless marriages that have survived an undiscovered affair in relative health. Even if it were to go undiscovered, the affair could bring a strain to the marriage and cause it to fall apart. I don’t see, however, that this would be any worse than breakin up directly because of the affair. Others may draw different conclusions from points 1-4 above, and I would be interested in hearing them.
NOTE: This does not take into account how this situation bears on your happiness. How uncomfortable would you be stepping in? How uncomfortable would you be not stepping in? If the couple has kids, then the matter becomes much more complex (though I still think my advice would be suitable in that case). No one said the calculus of felicity would be simple.
I don’t know, if you confront the wife and tell her that you will tell her husband if she doesn’t, she may take some kind of preemptive action to reduce your credibility in his eyes.
A possibility, I suppose, but a relatively small one. This is mostly because it is not at all certain to work, and because (if she believes the threat is genuine) the wife would be hesitant to do anything which might prompt action.
I disagree with the “ultimatum” approach. I might approach the wife and try to convince her to tell her husband, but I think that must ultimately be her decision.
If you want an ultimatum, then tell her that if she doesn’t tell her husband, you’ll break off your friendship with her. IMO, it’s not your place to intrude in her marital union, no matter how messed up it might be.
“A strong ethical basis for revealing what you know seems to be that the cheating partner is
putting the cuckholded partner at medical risk, without his knowledge or consent.”
Bricker, how do you know the person they are having sex with is putting them at medical risk? Are you saying you know the person & the person has a std?
With logic like that people shouldn’t have sex with anyone at all.
I don’t know that, of course.
But it seems pretty commonly accepted that any sexual activity involves some measurable risk. The question is: at what point is it so slight that it’s legitimate to expose someone to that risk without their consent?
One of the ‘high risk’ behaviours the Surgeon General warned of is multiple sexual partners. Even if the cheating SO and her lover practiced ‘safe sex’, there is still an increased risk to the failthful SO that he is unaware of. We’ve all heard the line ‘You’re not just sleeping with that person, but with everyone they have slept with’. None of the ‘safe-sex’ precautions are 100% effective.
We have no idea how many partners the SO’s lover has.
Another option is to go to the friend, have a conversation with him, and try to have this sort of subject “come up”. If he mentions that he wouldn’t want to know, don’t tell him. If he says that he would, then do. Of course, this isn’t easy to do without him figuring out.
VarlosZ:
Try not to take this personally, but I find that sort of view rather ridiculous. If two people are in a monogamous relationship, then clearly they believe that affairs, even if undiscovered, hurt the relationship. Shouldn’t you trust their judgement regarding what will hurt them more than your own? According to your logic, someone who hides a camera in woman’s bathroom isn’t hurting her, but someone that tells her about the camera is.
Apparently, the wife doesn’t have a problem with it. Why is the husband’s (potential) opinion inherently more valid than the wife’s?
In the most immediate sense, he wouldn’t be hurting her (there could be people spying on me in the shower, but I’m not hurt by it since I’m not aware of it). Of course this woman would have every right to want privacy, but would it be so unreasonable to try to remove the hypothetical camera without their ever knowing about its existence? Now, if that were somehow not possible, then of course it would be best to remove the camera with her knowledge, but the two situations are not completely analogous. Finding out that a pervert has been spying on you in the bathroom isn’t going to ruin your life; finding out that your wife is cheating on you might do that.
As I explained before, the affair is bad because it is dangerous (i.e. it might be discovered, causing pain and anguish for all parties involved). The best result, and therefore the one that should be pursued, is the cessation of the affair without the husband’s knowledge. If that proves to be impossible, however, I don’t see that telling the husband helps anything. To use your analogy, would you notify women that they were being watched every time they went to the bathroom if there were nothing that could be done about it?
Now, there could be circumstances in any particular situation that would warrant informing the husband. Bricker, of course, knows more about the circumstances and the people involved than we, so it comes down to his judgement call. For example, if the husband were thinking about leaving the marriage anyway, then telling him about the affair could actually be a good thing. In fact, if you want to have a subject “come up,” as you put it, that’s the one to bring up (not the suspicious sounding, “Say Chuck, if your wife were cheating on you, would you want me to tell you about it? Uhhh, just for future reference, I mean, heheh. . .”)
I’ll be away for a 2-3 days. 'Till then, peace.
Bricker, perhaps there would be a better emotional response if you asked “Cheating SO - Would you want to know?”
Just for the record, I’ve seen two occasions where a spouse having an affair (never discovered) saved the marriage. In one case, it jump-started sex for the couple again when the person having the affair rediscovered sex and was able to bring that rediscovery home. In the other, it allowed the person having the affair a vent for sex and affection while taking care of a terminally ill spouse. (Don’t knock that until you’ve had a spouse die–taking care of a dying person is no picnic.)
I’m not advocating cheating in general, but I thought I’d throw out some food for thought.
Have her tell him, it’s better.
My ex-gf told me about two months after we had broken up that she had cheated on me once. Apparently a lot of my friends knew about it, and of course, I was completely out of the loop. God, it still makes me sick, I cried more because they didn’t tell me then because she had.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by VarlosZ *
First of all, I doubt that the woman honestly believes that the affair will not cause any problems. Secondly, it’s not that her opinion is less important. It’s that both people have veto rights over any affair. If the man wanted to have an affair, and the woman didn’t want him to, the woman’s wishes should be honored.
What if the guy that put the camera in the bathroom is invited over on a regular basis, and often has the opportunity to replace the camera? Are you going to just keep getting rid of the cameras? Or are you going to tell the woman that she might want to not invite the guy over anymore, and tell her why?
Assuming some strange situation in which their knowing has no effect on people’s ability to put a camera in the bathroom, maybe not. But if someone knows that their spouse is cheating, they can almost always take steps to make further affairs less likely.
Obviously I was thinking of something a bit more subtle.
I disagree with Varlos’s contention that what the husband doesn’t know can’t hurt him. Assuming that we do not have lee’s suggested situation that the affair is entirely open, I submit that the affair can still harm the relationship.
Trust is considered pretty important in a relationship. The cheated can no longer trust the cheater. Of course the cheated doesn’t know this, but the cheater does. Sometimes the act of observing changes the observer as well as the observed. The cheater may well start questioning the innocent cheated’s actions (“If I can do it then so can he”). The cheater will feel guilty and resent that guilt ("I wouldn’t have to have an affair if he didn’t…). Trust has been compromised. The relationship is harmed.
Basically, it takes two to make a marriage work. If one of the two is failing to do their part then the marriage will suffer, even if the other never realises the reason.
pan
I was in a relationship with psychobitchfromhell el grande supremo. She cheated on me several times. Once she told me she had been indiscrete six months earlier. I then felt the pain of betrayal and felt like a complete chump because she had withheld this from me for 6 months. That did add to the pain a lot. She had the nerve to say I shouldn’t take it so hard. It was six months ago, fer chrissakes!
IMHO, the news of an affair will come out eventually. It’s better to find out about it. The earlier, the better.
Just wanted to throw in my weight with lee here…it is not entirely unheard of for a spouse to be sleeping with someone else…WITH his or her spouse’s full knowledge and consent. I’m definitely not saying that’s the situation…how the hell would I know? I don’t know any of these people! However, to automatically assume that “catching someone in the act” is automatically trial and conviction of cheating behind someone else’s back is both rude and unfair.
I’ve opened this several times considering if I wanted to post.
Ok. I was the cheatee for my entire 5 years of married life (ok, so he was faithful while I was pregnant). He made it a point to make sure that I knew. I thought it was exceedingly cruel of him to do so. examples:
First time unfaithful. We worked different days, he went out on his ‘dates’ while I was at work, used my car, thank you. I did not know anything was going on (hell, we’d only been married for a week or two). He confessed ‘because he felt so bad’.
Next time (that I can remember), we’d been on vacation together in a different city. My vacation ended before his did. I came home, he stayed out of town. He had a one night stand with a complete stranger. a few months later, we were talking at a restaurant about our marriage, he expressed regret for cheating, I said “well, it was only once” he said, nope…
Next time (that I can remember), I had been injured (2nd degree burns covering my torso), was pretty much laid up on pain killers, he said he was going various places, fine. He came home and 'confessed ‘cause he felt so bad’, that instead, he’d gone out on a date.
Next affair (that I can remember), I found out 'cause he’d called in sick to work, his coworker called to see how he was. She was very apologetic. I would have found out anyhow, though - since the woman he was seeing lived next to a coworker of mine. My coworker chose to ‘play’ it by saying something like “gee, where do I know your husband from?..” jerk. His lover ‘criscoed’ my car.
Next one that I can remember, he casually informed me that the one time I’d asked him to watch our son while I did something social, he’d taken Ben to a ‘friends’ house and came back with some used clothes for him, said ‘friend’ was really his lover, too. He used my credit card to purchase presents for her from Victoria’s Secret.
So. What to conclude (other than I’d made a really bad choice in husbands?)? When the telling of the affair is motivated by the cheating spouse’s 'confession ‘cause they feel so bad’, it’s an added act of cruelty.
If it’s an innocent ‘oops’ like the friend who accidently busted him, it was an act of kindness.
Had his coworker told me of suspicions, I would have welcomed the information. The contrived ‘confessions’ I was subjected to were IMHO additional cruel acts (especially the one that was a one night stand with a stranger in a different city)
There’s no simple answer to this.
Having been the cheatee, I never suspected a thing. Had someone told me, I like to think I might have been able to confront my wife, and we might have been able to do something to save the marriage.
On the other hand, if I had confronted her and she had denied it, I probably would never again have spoken to the person who tipped me off. So you’d best be damned sure of your information.
On the third hand, when Mrs. Kunilou (not the cheater, but my current wife) and I uncovered some evidence that one of our good friends may have been cheating on her husband, Mrs. Kunilou insisted that we butt out and let things take their own course. (Many years later, those friends are still married and, we assume, have gotten past whatever rough time they were going through.