When you do that, and don’t mention the original name, the exact same people complain that you stole the idea and didn’t mention the name.
Here’s a counterpoint: https://youtu.be/v6o9TF3BYAQ
Well, no. No Italian is going to complain if you put peas and ham in a dish and not ever mention it being “carbonara” at any point.
I, of course, don’t disagree with anything Adam says there.
No, really, they do.
It’s not at all uncommon for someone to complain (all at once):
- What you’re making is actually called X, and you should have mentioned this
- Also, you’re making it wrong
My point solely being: there is nothing to be done that can stop this. It’s tempting to think: If you just behave in this specific careful way, the complaints will cease.
They won’t.
In fact. ‘if you just behave in this specific careful way’ is itself just a variation on ‘you’re doing it wrong’.
I guess I’ve been lucky then.
I hope I haven’t jinxed you
I mean, to me, the pea, bacon, cream & whatever carbonara is so far afield of an Italian carbonara that no Italian would even be able to say for sure that carbonara was the original inspiration. Could be any of a number of dishes.
But, sure, do whatever the heck you want with a dish. There’s no rules, nothing to stop you, and that’s how new dishes develop. I know to interpret words like “carbonara” very much contextually and liberally – I am definitely linguistically a descriptivist – but sometimes I just want a real classic carbonara, and I have to dig in the menus to figure out who does it the conventional way: with guanciale, eggs, percorino and/or parm, pepper, and little else.
Adam Ragusea’s extensive explanation addresses this point at about 28:00 when he says At 28 minutes:
“I think Italian people seem to have have a particular problem with losing perspective when it comes to food…. And I would venture to say that there is an element of small-mindedness to the contemporary collective Italian psyche, a parochialism that keeps Italy connected to its very proud past but also stymies Italy’s full integration into the dynamic global present.”
I don’t think it’s uniquely Italian, though they are probably the most visible (and most stereotyped as acting this way.)
I don’t think it’s uniquely Italian in the sense that only Italian people behave like this. Howevee I do that there is justification to note that it is characteristically Italian in that it is a notable component of the broad Italian national identity. Not every Italian, but very common among Italians, and a characteristic that even Italians would recognize. I. Other words, it may be a stereotype but it’s not an unfair stereotype.
I’m in a mixed South Asian + East Asian family in the US and god help me, the level of preciousness about “authentic” Indian, Pakistani, Chinese and Vietnamese food makes me stabby sometimes.
In my household:
"What are you cooking?
“Stew”
"What kind of stew?
“Some kinda meat.”
I think it’s probably true that different peoples have their own different ways of losing perspective. Food is only one possible domain in which people lose their shit, but it’s one that’s likely to spill over international borders.
British people, for example, have a reputation for losing their shit over breaches of interpersonal etiquette, but the nature of that is such that it probably stays mostly local.
I tried the Branston pickle again, this time with a much stronger imported English cheddar. The pickle completely overpowers the flavor of the cheese. It feels like a waste of good cheese.
Maybe I’d prefer the ones that are more finely chopped. Then it would possible to spread the pickle in a much thinner layer, thus making it easier to balance the cheese and pickle.
Queuing!
This, in itself, is an unreasonable position. It’s perfectly logical to continue using a name if you are making variations on a dish. And it’s also unreasonable to expect that someone is going to come up with a new name for every variation.
I’m not sure it was ever really meant for ‘good cheese’. Cheap white bread, lump of supermarket cheddar, smear of branston, quick lunch job done.
For me it’s up there with salad cream and lettuce sandwiches, which are DE-LIC-IOUS (at least when you’re 12 and just back from school)
I disagree, but such is life.
It would be a waste of bad cheese, too, if I can’t taste it at all over the pickle. That’s why I’m wondering whether the finer chopped version might balance better.
Strange, I found the interplay between the cheddar and the pickle to be amazing; I felt that each flavour complemented and elevated the other.