I think you missed my point…
I was being serious when I said that the joke would have been funnier had leander used proper stereotypes of Americans. Cowardly American jumping into sewers is not a stereotype I’m aware of. Americans as flag-waving, burger-eating jingoes is. And frankly, I think my version was funnier than leander’s.
Psst, yoj, gex is on our side 
He’s pointing out that any hint of a stereotype going the other way gets jumped all over pretty damn quick, in many cases by the same people who are more than happy to do their own stereotyping in the other direction.
pan
Written before the crash and probably a bit outdated:
HOLD THE PRESSES!
I just remembered! I’m French Huguenot! My last name is a corruption of Marchant! Can I say it now? Can I? Huh? I mean, if anyone can hold a just grudge against the French, it’s gotta be the Huguenots!
Kabbes, I do see some of your points, but they fail miserably when you start playing the race card and the reverse-reverse-reverse psychology card. The joke applies to the country as a whole and plays on grounded stereotypes. Not one individual would believe that any of France’s countrymen would immediately surrender (or even eat cheese)…but it’s a funny little jab. Go ahead and call me a burger-eating xenophobe (which is also sorta funny, if there are any stereotypical displays of xenophobia, I would rank France right up there too. As well as the fact that I’m married to a foreigner and living in a foreign land.). Big deal.
As for using it to make a point, well, it does. I don’t respect the choices that France has made on many issues in the last couple of years (heck, decades). I don’t believe that their capitulation or yielding or resignation is the way to go. So my use of the joke is leaning a bit towards the dig in the ribs side of things. Again, I’ll stop using it when they step up to the plate, like many other countries are.
And just because I support action against Afganistan and Iraq doesn’t mean I am a warmongerrerererrwhatever…I simply don’t believe that inaction now will save more lives later. I fear that not doing anything today could lead to more problems, more build-up of weapons and more time for terrorists to plan and carry out attacks against our citizens and our allies. I believe that action today will ultimately save more lives and improve the living standards of the countries we do the smack-down on…If a peaceful way existed that would effectively save lives all around, now and in the future, I would be all for it.
But really, the self-righteousness of this thread is pretty lame. Let he who has not ever used a stereotype cast the first stone. You’ve never called someone a redneck? Yuppie? Hippie? Conservative? Liberal? Troll? Geek? Jock? Wannabe? Gang-banger? Newbie? Wimp? Warmongerer? Peacenik? Every one of those terms flashed an image in your brain as you read it. I didn’t put it there, but you came up with an image for Jock that I bet is pretty close to the one that I envision. Stereotypes are a useful way for the brain to quickly associate one thing with a group of things. When you pre-judge someone completely based on stereotypes and not allow their current behaviour to be taken into consideration, then that is bad. But in the absence of new information, then going on past experience and knowledge (or stereotype) is the best way to go.
-Tcat
Doh. I’m an idiot. I really shouldn’t post when I’ve got somebody explaining SAP workflow in my ear.
Why can’t we delete posts 
Sorry.
And in case anyone should accuse Twisty of putting words in my mouth, what he says is true. It’s not those particular words, it’s the casual perpetuation of an outdated and bigoted stereotype. A homophobic joke remains homophobic, a racist joke is still racist, and an outdated bigoted attitude remains an outdated bigoted attitude regardless of whether it’s disguised as a joke or not.
You may find it funny. I don’t. Whether you or I find it funny or not makes no difference to that attitude behind it, which is “Ha ha ha those Frenchies, they surrendered! They’re such cowards!”. When you consider the losses they suffered as shown well by Kabbes’ statistics, it’s both inaccurate and unfair.
It’s more than fifty years later. You’re still laughing at this pathetically outdated stereotype. I don’t think that’s very flattering on you.
As for the actions of the French governement now, how about you see it as the actions of the French government? And not of the French people as a whole? I’d rather not be viewed as a mirror of the decisions the British governement and I’d think there’s a fair few of you that’s rather not be seen as a mirror of George W Bush.
This is, frankly, rubbish. Of course we’ve all been guilty of being aware of stereotypes. But are you seriously saying that you have no information on French people other than the stereotype? No one knows anything about French people other than that they surrendered to the Germans over fifty years ago? The stereotype is lazy thinking, it’s a cheap gag and it’s offensive.
Tom, my problem with this thread is that the French get an Inordinate amount of abuse on these boards and it is never called on. And when it is called, people went out of their way to make stupid offensive jokes about the French.
You can mention all the Government policies you want, but dont use it as a tool to stereotype an entire populace.
You have a point about using steoeotypes, but can you also see that while some stereotypes are unavoidable, others are unnecessary?
And of course, when certain people make statements interpreted as anti-French, what they’re really criticizing is the French government. Or French politicians. Or French cuisine, or culture.
But no one has anything against the French people.
How does one stereotype by calling someone a “warmonger”? (although I’ll give you that “warmongererer” was amusing. You got me on that one.) Ditto “peacenik”? What people am I stereotyping? Only those who are warmongers. And my stereotype is that they wish to monger war. Not very controversial then.
And no - I have never labelled large groups of people as any of those things in your post. I might call my girlfriend a hippy. I might call my college friend a geek. But that’s because they are those things. I have never said that everyone living in SF, for example, is a hippy. Because they are not.
That wasn’t too difficult, was it?
And my attitude anyway has always been on these matters: forget the label, consider the contents. Labels are pretty stupid things anyway. Who cares an attitude can be officially branded by the word “racist”, for example? What matters is the attitude itself and what we think about it.
And this attitude towards the French stinks. Let’s see your country have 650,000 of its populace wiped out by a neighbouring country (that’s 130 World Trade Centres, incidentally) and see how you feel about being called cowards as a result.
pan
Jack - so labelling all French people as cowards says nothing about French people? You want to think that one through again?
Q: How many Americans does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: Two. One to change it, and one to make a speach praising “nukeuler” power.
I suppose if “The Simpsons” is someone’s idea of entertainment, then I can expect this childish behavior from it’s viewers as well.
I’ve read many threads in which the show is quoted. Personally, I think it is a pathetic use of television and should be cancelled. But then again, that’s just my opinion.
grow up already…:rolleyes:
Wow! I usually just go sit in a corner and cry when anyone even mentions SAP let alone try to do anything else.
But then SAP is just another way the Germans are attempting to take over the world. They make a company pay untold (certainly not by those that put it in and by the time you put it in you can’t get any info out to see where the money went!) millions of dollars for SAP, then when the implementation fails they jump in and scoop up the company after it goes broke because of it.
But that’s Germans for ya. Always wanting to take over the world.
And I would also like to take this opportunity to apologize for my fellow Americans’ regrettable tendency to take to British message boards en masse to make ridiculing statements about British foreign policy, scofflaws protesting the London commuter tax, naming an entire football league for a commercial sponsor, and what some cultural misfits see as a disgusting and barf-worthy tendency to slather mayonnaise on one’s chips.
He’s having a go at the Belgians now!
Seriously, Jackmannii, nobody has any objections to intelligent criticism of French internal or domestic policy. It’s just the knee-jerk stupid phrase that is trotted out every single damn time that France is mentioned that is being criticised.
say what you want about America, but DO NOT disparage the SIMPSONS!!!
Once again, since when has tis become a mesage board where only opinoins of Americans are allowed?
Oh, and give me the name of one professional Leauge in America that doesnt allow commercial endorsments.
Speaking of dirty hands- those who were intentionally “bigoted” remarks about other countries “to make a point” should be ashamed of themselves. The 9-11 joke was especially despicable. In doing these things, you simply have intentionally become what you claim to deplore.
Back to the topic. kabbes, sorry for the delay, I wrote a nice response to your post which died in the great flood of 03.
My concern is the “Crying Wolf” aspect of this whole thing. Some people throw the words “bigot” and “racism” around some much that they lose the impact that they should have. In fact, to me its a slap in the face of all those who have suffered true racism and bigotry, to equate in any way a overused Simpsons joke with the horrors of true racism and bigotry faced by those in the Jim Crow South, in Germany during WWII, or more recently Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia. With African-American history month coming up here in February, the heedless dilution of the term “bigot” and “racism” is worrisome, especially when used in such highly questionable circumstances. Even this board has seen enough true bigotry (i.e. the last invasion of the St*rm Fr@nt bigots, and the random, usually quickly banned trolls).
Franco-phile disclosure: as a big fan of the Tour de France, good wine, cheese and bread, and a keen appreciation of the importance of French military and financial support during the American Revolution, and also in recognition of the nifty statue in New York harbor given to us by the French, I admire the French quite a bit. But even I admit there can be plenty to lampoon about the French at times (much like any other country- see the jokes about the various Scandinavian countries about the stupidity, cheapness or poor hygiene of their neighbors, for just one common example). Is everyone in those counties making those jokes bigots and racists? No, of course not. Bagging on “the competition” seems to be a universal truism.
Hypocrisy check: I still have not seen those decrying the French crack, call out those who intentionally made “bigoted” comments (by your own broad definition) against other counties in this thread. You cannot have it both ways if that truly is your definition. The thread is still open. Call them out.
See? This is funny! The power of proper stereotypes.
Well, there’s the Budweiser National Football League…wait a minute…OK, the Verizon American League (baseball)…uh…forget it, of course you’re correct.
Rather than just decrying the implied slur on French military capabilities indulged in by thousands of posters on this board, we should counter with examples of Gallic prowess.
One little known fact: after WWII, the French re-occupied the Maginot Line, refurbished it and manned it until the early 1960s.
And in all that time, not one foreign power succeeding in breaching France’s eastern frontier.