Child Custody and therapy - legal question

A friend of mine is a single mother of two girls ~ 6 and 7 yrs old. Her ex was a layabout deadbeat till she kicked him to the curb. He moved, married someone else and has a new family.

She is extremely concerned about the possibility he might try to obtain custody. I do not know the extent of their communications on the topic. I do know that the girls live with her, and she’s made arrangements a couple times a year for the girls to visit their father. Typically Thanksgiving is one.

She has been having a very stressful time trying to earn a living, issues with having to move a couple times, struggling with bills. She knows she would be better off if she could see a therapist and probably could use antidepressants.

But she is rather paranoid that if she did that her ex might find out and try to use that in a custody situation to take the girls away from her.

I do not know how much of a reality there is to her concern over the ex trying to do so. I get the impression that he is not paying any child support. I have pointed out that he should - which would help her dramatically - but she is worried that if she tries to pursue it that he would pursue custody.

My questions:

First off, how realistic is it for her being in therapy or being on antidepressants getting used against her in a custody dispute? Could he get a subpeona for med records? How would the courts evaluate such information?

Second, I know that child support is his obligation to the children, regardless of custody. I don’t know him, but I can see how someone might be difficult if pressed to provide child support that he might want more involvement, some shared arrangement, more time than just a couple days a year. He lives in a different state, so alternate weekends isn’t a realistic option.

She does not have a degree - she is currently pursuing a college degree and plans to enter nursing school, but she’s got 2 or 3 semesters before she can apply to nursing school. She is definitely low income, and trying to find stable income. Frequent travel would be a significant hit to her budget.

Any lawyers with information? Folks been through the ringer and have insight?

IANAL

I suspect family courts are generally on the ball enough to recognize that a parent on antidepressants is one who is solving a problem, not causing one. Moreover, I wouldn’t expect the courts to act in ways that would give parents with mental problems an incentive not to treat those problems.

Whether my opinion gibes with reality, I don’t know.

After being the primary caregiver for the children, she would pretty much have to be a crackwhore that plied her trade right in front of the children with multiple arrests and suicide attempts and documented neglect and abuse of the children for any court to give custody over to an uninvolved father who has taken no interest and has not provided for them.

Simple (ha!) depression/anxiety and medication for that should not have any bearing on a custody hearing, especially if she’s under treatment. It would be far more likely that were she NOT under treatment and couldn’t get her butt off the couch to get the child to school that he could use it against her.

First of all, there’s legal custody and physical custody. The default these days is joint legal custody - meaning each parent has equal input into things like choice of schools, medical treatment, church attendance and extra curricular activities, travel or moving far away from the other parent, etc. You have to be a real shitstain on humanity’s arse to have legal custody taken away.

There’s a very wide range of physical custody arrangements these days. Most of the time, this is also called “joint custody”, even if they’re with one parent more than the other. If the parents are able to come to some sort of agreement and write it up and sign it together (called a Joint Parenting Agreement), and they take it to a notary and sign it and then one or both of them shows it to a judge, it’s almost always rubber stamp approved with little or no changes made by the judge. It’s in the kid’s best interest to have these sorts of decisions voluntary made by the parents working together, and courts know that. They don’t *care *if it’s “even steven” in terms of time with each parent - that’s often not a realistic goal. What they care about is that the kids are able to form some sort of filial relationship with both their folks.

There are tons of websites out there with suggestions for physical custody arrangements. When I was a kid, I lived with my mom in the town I went to school in. I spent some time in the summer vacation with my dad - beginning with one week when I was a six year old, and adding on a week each year until I was there for 6 or 8 weeks of summer. I spent a week of my two week Christmas break there. This was because he lived in New Jersey and Mom lived in Illinois - weekend visitation wasn’t an option.

My own ex and I have tried several different arrangements. What worked when she was in preschool didn’t work in kindergarten, and what worked in kindergarten didn’t work in first grade. We live about a mile away from each other, and we are very flexible and focused on what she needs, and willing to adapt with little notice, which helps. We’ve done it where he drops her off and school and I pick her up and spend time with her in the afternoon and return her to him before or after dinner. That worked very well in preschool, but got difficult when homework started in kindergarten. We did a week with him, a week with me. That worked well for much of first grade, but then 7 days away from one of us got to be too stressful for her, as she missed the one she wasn’t with. Now we’re on a 5-5-2-2 schedule. 5 days with him, 5 with me, 2 with him, 2 with me. This means we alternate weekends, which is wonderful, and she’s never more than a few days away from seeing whomever she’s missing.

Be creative, is my point. And be compassionate - I wouldn’t send a 6 and 7 year old to stay with a man they hardly know for a month right off the bat, even if they call him “Dad” (unless, of course, they want to.)

But, in this day and age, unless she’s neglecting or abusing the kids because of her depression, I would be absolutely floored if a judge made it an issue, even assuming he somehow found out about it. Our judge certainly didn’t know about or care about my mental health history.

If he’s better off financially, it’s perfectly cromulent to write the Joint Parenting Agreement so that he pays the transportation costs for visitation. My dad had to foot the bill for my plane tickets each year.

And finally…custody and child support are meant to be, and are legally, completely independent things. If she’s got them more than 50% of the time, he should be paying something, even if she decides to put it in a trust fund for later because she doesn’t need it right now. And, conversely, even if he never pays a cent of child support, he’s legally entitled to meaningful parenting time with his children, and a say in their upbringing.

Logistically and realistically, of course, many custodial parents decide that the best way to keep their ex out of the child’s life is to not bring them to court for child support. This is actually the route I took with my son’s father, who was the “promise the kid he’ll visit and never show up” type of idiot. I decided it wasn’t worth my son’s mental health to take his dad to court once again, since it was only when we were at court that Ex decided to phone and make false promises to our son. So if her ex is a waste of oxygen, then yeah, maybe that’s the way to go…but it’s not the most *legal *way to go.

She needs a lawyer. I understand that she can’t afford one, but that’s the facts. You can check with the local Bar Association; many of them offer free legal clinics on stuff like this, at least to get a framework.

Moreover, she needs to get healthy to be a good parent to her kids. Even if it does mean her ex gets to be a bigger presence, that might be the cost she needs to pay. (This is easy for me to say, since I live with my kids, sure.)

–Cliffy

I’d still be interested for some lawyers to weigh in. Maybe should have posted in GQ?

I know she really needs to consult a lawyer. I’d like to encourage her to do so, but don’t think I can convince her.

What I would like is information that I can use to reassure her that getting therapy and antidepressants will not be perceived by the courts as a negative if a custody issue ever came up. I’m sure if a custody issue ever came up, there would have to be some negotiated joint custody/visitation agreement that is more substantial than what currently is in place.

I am aware that visitation and child support are legally separate issues. I have mentioned that to her, but for now it seems easier to her to avoid both rather than pursue child support and then have the visitation issue raised.

You won’t like the answer. In my state, yes, therapy and anti-depressants could be used against her in a custody fight. If the other side raised the issue, she’d have to sign a release of her medical records. Also not in her favor is financial instability–multiple moves in a short period of time. These factors are not necessarily decisive…the father’s lack of involvement and lack of support will hurt him.

In my state, when determining custody, the Courts consider a list of about a dozen factors, always guided by the polestar consideration of “the best interest of the child”. Pretty much anything can be relevant under one or more of the factors, and custody cases can go either way. If the child is over the age of 12, the child has the right to express a preference regarding custody.

The law may or may not be similar where your friend lives. She should consult a lawyer in that jurisdiction.

I am not a lawyer, and following this advice may result in any number of unforeseeable consequences (including fatal shark attack). Heed and proceed at your own risk, 'cause sharks are fucking scary!

If he’s not paying child support now, the chance that he would be interested in obtaining custody (other than as an act of revenge) is practically nil. And even if he pursues a case for full custody as revenge for being taken to court for child support, he’s not going to get it. She would probably, at worst, end up with something like an 80/20 arrangement (gets to see his kids over summer and winter break). And even then, only IF he pays all the back support he owes her and continues to keep current on his payments. Judges are not stupid. They’re going to see right through his motivations if he files for full custody, and his payment history (i.e. lack thereof) is against him.

Moreover, regardless of the potential consequences, mom is morally obligated to file for a support judgment against her ex. That money isn’t hers, it’s intended to provide a stable life for her kids. Therefore, it’s not morally up to her to say, “I don’t need this money.” Plus, family court strongly tends to favor moms who are in the picture over dads who moved out of state to set up another fuckin’ franchise.

If there’s a possibility that treating her mental health issues will have an adverse effect on the proceedings (I would trust Oakminster, he’s one fart smellow), welp… she’s had years to file for support, and hasn’t done it yet. What the hell is she waiting for? If she can wait to get healthcare, then great. If she can’t wait, then she needs to do it and live with the consequences (aka, act like an adult). Please urge her to get off her rectum, get a support order in place, take care of her mental health, and never again wait years to sort out her future legal snafus.

It would have just been bumped over to IMHO, because you are asking for advice. Maybe you are thinking of it as more information than advice, but, well, I’d have reported it and the mods would have acted on my report as they saw fit.

My expertise is in criminal law, and about all I can say confidently is that the overriding issue is supposed to be the best interests of the child – a point I see Oak more completely covered, so I will second his wise guidance: consult a lawyer licensed in your jurisdiction to get accurate and complete information about how your state laws apply to your particular factual situation.

My thanks for the info provided.

I posted in IMHO because I expected it would be moved there, since that’s where legal questions and medical questions get moved. But note that my intent is not for advice (you should do X, she should so Y), but rather to gather information on how therapy and antidepressants are evaluated and what effect they have on custody proceedings. I’m looking for facts. I would be interested in relevant anecdotes (i.e. “in my custody case …”).