You probably didn’t see a lot of bullying between girls because, as you point out, girls usually play mind games and those aren’t obvious like physical bullying is. Girls are often taught not to confront people directly when they have a beef, so they do it indirectly, through gossip and passive-aggressive behaviors. This behavior is why a lot of people say they hate working with women.
Depends on the school. I went to 14 of them before high school (predominantly filled with military kids) and the girls threw fists as quickly as the boys. I was 5’6 by the fifth grade (I’m female) and was super athletic, no one attempted to bully me, but I still had to fight at every new school because one girl wanted to be “in charge” and taking out the biggest girl in the class was her ticket. As I got to high school i was 5’10 and used my size to protect the weaker/quieter girls; I could never understand the mindset of a bully and they royally pissed me off when they started in on someone.
One girl from high school I remember vividly, she was quiet and shy and little and very nice if you took the time to talk with her. She started getting into her locker and pulling the door shut as I’d walk by, I thought it was odd and one day I stopped and knocked on the door, she said “please PLEASE don’t hit me!”. I asked her why she thought I’d do that and she told me a group of the popular girls in our PE class said I was pissed at her and going to take her down. Can’t remember a time when I’ve been more angry, how dare someone instill that kind of fear in another person for their own enjoyment! Oh well, payback was a bitch, I let them know I was going to make them suffer for that… then let them stew in their fear for a few weeks before I acted.
Mostly this. Bullies aren’t looking for a fight, much less a fair fight. They pick on people that they think they can get away with bullying, and the absolute worst thing that can happen to a bully is to misjudge someone and get into a real fight. I was the quiet loner type, so often targeted, but never by the same person twice and by junior high I’d gotten good enough to win against most anyone.
One of the craziest things I’ve ever heard was from a kid that tried to bully me with one of his friends. A teacher broke up the fight and in the principal’s office they asked him why. He said “I heard his parents are dead so I figure who’s gonna care?” My parents had died maybe two weeks before. It blew my six-year old mind that that was seen by someone as an opportunity to bully someone.
More irony. The kid and his friend didn’t stop, they would jump me after we got off the school bus where no adults were around. The last time, I finally got the upper hand and was kicking both their asses, and was pulled off them by the initiator’s older brother (he was maybe ten) with a lecture about fighting. He’d watched his brother hit me all week, two on one, and now fighting was wrong? This was the sixties and first grade me didn’t know any cuss words but I sorely wished for them that day.
That might be true of the ones you encountered, but it is not accurate as a broad statement. Some bullies are exactly looking for a fight. They enjoy fighting. I repeat: Motivation varies by the bully. Not all have been victims. Not all are cowards.
We’ll have to agree to disagree. The people you describe in the broader sense if the word aren’t bullies, in my opinion.
When I worked with five-year-olds at a preschool (they were kindergartners, because the preschool went that far, and then the kids went into first grade the next year), I was always having the figuratively pull them off this one kid. It was pretty clear why. She WAY, WAY over-reacted to everything. Teasing her could send her into a tantrum, or into tears, but something was going to happen. Tease another kid, and they would probably laugh right along with you, unless you went to far, in which case the whole class would come down on you for going beyond the limits of schoolyard teasing.
She didn’t just over-react to teasing; she over-reacted to everything. She had major freak-outs over the littlest things, and I think at first some people thought she was trying to be funny on purpose, but anyway, it got to be a thing, where she’d over-react, and everyone would roll their eyes, a few would laugh, and, someone would make a comment that would exacerbate the situation.
She may have had an anxiety disorder, but if you ask me, her parents had a lot to do with her freak-outs. She was an only child, and home life revolved around her. She expected school to revolve around her too, and when it didn’t, she had a lot of trouble dealing with it. It doesn’t have to be that way, because my son is an only child, but we didn’t bring him up to think the sun rises and sets on him, and that’s kind of what this kid’s parents did. Just as an example, the kid was deathly afraid of balloons. We didn’t learn this until we brought some balloons in for the other kids to play with. She started screaming, and so we told her to go sit in the hall. Her shock was palpable. It was clear she expected us to get rid of the balloons and deprive the whole class of the activity because she didn’t want to do it. But that’s not the end of it. We got a visit from her mother at the end of the day complaining about us excluding her child, which wasn’t really true-- we said she could come back in any time she wanted.
It’s worth noting that this kid told me a couple of times she was smarter and prettier than anyone else in class. I think that’s another artifact of being an only child with clueless parents. Every parent tells their child he’s the smartest, the best, the cutest. If a parent has five kids, he still tells each one those things at some point. Almost every kid, whether an only child or not, figures out that this is just something parents say to their kids. But sometimes you get a kid who never has that epiphany, and this kid was among them. She really believed she was better than everyone else, and it showed.
I could write a very long post with a dozen examples of this kid basically setting herself up.
Don’t get me wrong. I had talks with the class about leaving her alone, and why it isn’t nice to provoke someone (I didn’t say “provoke,” but I don’t remember what word I used). I also am not “blaming the victim.” She was five. I think there’s some room to blame her parents, though. But the question was how and why a target is chosen, and it was very clear why she was targeted.
School bullies grow up to adult bullies, often engaged in predictable enabling careers. They probably continue to use the same victim selection criteria.
Some kids, even adults bring it onto themselves. I’ve bullied people as an adult because they were drama queens and if no drama was present then they would initiate it in some fashion. Perhaps me picking on them was an effort on my part to get them to stop, which it does at least when I’m around. Other harassment’s by me seemed to be towards people that were too needy.
I think humans naturally desire to remove weak links in the chain that could cause problems or weigh down the group. You see this a lot at places of work where those that cause others more work or company losses will get targeted. You will also see this effect if you’re in a group stranded on a deserted island or anywhere that requires everyone to work together.
Not always. Sometimes, they get a clue that what they are doing is wrong, and that their behavior needs to change. It may be that they find themselves in a new group, such as college or the military, where their new peers don’t give them the reaction they want, so they lose their incentive to bully. It may be that they face some consequence if their behavior doesn’t change, such as losing a relationship or a job, or facing legal consequences. Or it may be that they grow up and get some empathy. These can and do happen.
Or they continue to be assholes. That happens, too.
Bullies would almost never be able to bully if other people didn’t allow them to. Bullies that try to pick on popular people or people who are generally seen as vulnerable don’t usually last too long, the ones that pick on people that everyone else finds annoying usually don’t get a ton of pushback in my experience. Often I have seen that people who are “bullied” are excessively self-centered or do not consider anyone else’s needs or wants in a group situation.
I wouldn’t say I was bullied exactly, but I was picked on all through school. The reasons are basically what Chihuahua said.
–Socially inept
–Different from others
–Believed what I was taught in church, i.e., turn the other cheek
–Smartest kid in class, and did not bother to hide it
It wasn’t until I was about 20 that the light slowly began to dawn and I started the slow and arduous process of learning how to socialize and how to stick up for myself. I was in my 40s before I finally worked through the total lack of self-esteem that my school experience left me with.
Later in life I did hear what happened to some of the kids who picked on me. None that I know of went on to have happy lives. But I do have a good life, so in that respect I guess I had the last laugh after all.
The portrayal of bullies in modern children/family entertainment is interesting. There’s often an explanation like, as you say, they’re victims of bullying, or have a dysfunctional home life. It would be too simple if they’re sociopaths, or your average everyday asshole kid who grows up to be your average everyday asshole adult. Not complex enough for modern tastes. Everything needs a back story and shades of ambiguity.
It’s shooting fish in a barrel, but Cool Cat Saves the Kids was a funny example. Bullies are bad because they make fun of people and if you’re a bully you must be fat, ugly, and have no friends!
Someone mentioned adult bullying, is it bad if I thought of Trump and Jeb? I think it’s hilarious how Trump keeps picking on Jeb, despite the fact that Jeb hasn’t been a threat to him in forever.
Agreed. The common refrain that bullies are themselves cowards with low self-esteem is about the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Attacking and dominating other people with impunity is kind of the opposite of cowardice. All the studies I’ve seen suggest bullies have excellent self-esteem.
I’m not sure I’ve ever before heard someone boldly claim that they have been bullying and harassing others, when what they intend to say is that they have called their BS out. Your statement reflects a devaluation of the terms.
I haven’t made a study of the subject, but I think that bullied kids generally have poorer social skills than other kids, and if they get ostracized, they get even further behind.
I once suggested on another MB that anti-bullying programs, in addition to mandatory empathy and anger management classes for the worst offenders, should have voluntary classes in improving social skills for the victims. Everyone jumped on me and told me I was blaming the victim, etc., etc.
Well, for cripes sake, social skills are like math skills, basketball skills, reading skills, piano-playing skills-- some people are really good, some people need remediation, and most people fall on the center of a bell curve. There’s nothing shameful in admitting that. It’s not blaming the victim to suggest that a particular student might need a half hour with math flash cards every night until he finally “gets” division, and there’s no shame in saying that one kid needs a little help making friends.
I attended a private school and, like at all private schools in Australia, my bully was allocated to me the day my parents paid the deposit. Likewise in later years when I was a bully I received my list of “targets” at the start of each year.
Sure as hell sounds like you are to me. How dare she not be okay (or pretend to be okay) with being harassed and picked on!
“Someday you’ll be on your knees while I’m holding a gun to your face, and you and I will talk about the good old days.”
That is not what I said. Not even in the slightest.
What’s so bold about it? Is truth bold? I have no qualms with reality, it is what it is and I never understood why some prefer to view it through a unicorn’s eyes.
I have bullied throughout my life at various times and I have been bullied at various times. I just pointed out why I targeted them that’s all.