I have pretty good sense. You were just taking me the wrong way. I also just said some things I shouldn’t have said. Like I said, I don’t find raising decent children to be easy. Last Friday, when people were just making silly jokes, I got offended very quickly for no reason at. Must have had one of those days.
I think too many people today confuse discipline with abuse. Therefore, they don’t discipline their children at all, which, in my opinion, is a far subtler and more damaging form of abuse.
I know a couple with three absolutely cherubic looking (blond haired, blue eyed, apple cheeked) boys who are, in fact, minions of Satan. A good friend of mine got roped into watching one of them for a week. This kid lied to her about EVERYTHING, refused to obey her, yelled at her constantly, ATTACKED HER WITH HIS FISTS (and she’s pregnant!), refused to wash his hands or flush the toilet, and was generally a little monster the entire time. When his mother got him back, my friend told her about his misbehavior, and she actually LAUGHED and said, “Boys his age are just like that.” That was it. No punishment, no explanation to her son of proper behavior as a guest, no thank you, nothing.
This same woman has also admitted that one of her other sons has some personality traits that scare her. But of course, it doesn’t occur to her that it is her responsibility to correct them.
No wonder the kids are hellions.
I would definitely say the mother is the mother hellion.
Not to play the devil’s advocate here, but regardless of what we do to raise children, they ultimately grow and make up their own minds of what to do. If it’s reinforced (negatively or positively) or punished (negatively or positively) early, we still bear the burden of second guessing ourselves when we raise them. For example, I am sure that the parents of mass murders either had a traditional style family, or they had the worst of conditions to live. I have discovered with my limited amount of time here on Planet Earth that there is always two sides to a coin, story, result, aspect, truth, so be it. Here in this example, we are trying to rationalize a child’s behaviour through its parents or a parent’s behaviour through its child. Children usually repeat behaviour, but don’t they almost always turn out the exact opposite from what you expect? The interesting ploy to all this is to stop second guessing yourself or the child, as you may be causing the absolute doubt that children will inherit. I think a nice saying is, “you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make the horse drink.” We can lead children to be our futures and legacies, but whether or not they want to be a reflection of us is totally up to the child. It’s a simple Oedipus conflict that some don’t get to experience. As George Carlin would say, “Leave them the !@#$ alone!” Natural selection, health, mental capacity, personalities, peers, and parents can and will determine where your child <i>might</i> travel in respect to those abstract ideas that we call identity. Notice I list those in the order of most important to least. Let those children fly from the nest; they have a good twenty-five to forty years on you to figure out life. The scenario goes like this: they give up or they continue-it’s the law of nature. I think anyone who has been a child and then has burst from that shell (or egg to keep the imagery), has a rather good idea of whether or not they want to be parents. Nonetheless, we all raise children significantly different, but we all express one of two emotions: indifference or concern. Just flip a coin to make a decision, just keep it simple, and definitely don’t worry.
I will give my humble opinion in lieu of this: isn’t there enough people on Earth already?
Amen to that, October. I have a friend with two little boys who are NEVER disciplined because they’re “special” – she’s had them diagnosed with every popular learning disability to come down the block, medicates them nonstop, and has no concept of what total howling BRATS they are.
Two examples: My son, then 12, and I were visiting. He was sleeping on a mattress on the floor. Her darling then-6-year-old decided it would be funny to wake Young Tiger up by SCREAMING in his ear. But who got yelled at? Young Tiger, by Brat’s mom, because he had the NERVE to yell at her little darling when he was awakened with screams in his ear.
Fast forward to a few years ago. Brats 1 and 2 are now about age 7 and 9. They come to visit DC for summer vacation, and since we’re living there we get together a couple times. We go to the Smithsonian Natural History Museum on a Saturday. In July. With about 500,000 other people. So what does Brat 1 decide to would be funny? To RUN OFF. We had to split up and hunt the museum for 20 minutes, praying he hadn’t been snatched by a weirdo or who knows what. He was LAUGHING when he was found. And what was mom’s reaction? “Now, now, darling, you have to stay with the rest of the family! You must be bored – let’s go somewhere where you can have fun!” If it had been my kid, he would have been sitting in the motel room for the rest of the day – but instead he gets rewarded with a trip to a children’s museum.
And she wonders why I never visit her any more…Brats 1 and 2 are now 11 and 13. I figure about seven more years and they’ll be gone and then maybe we can pick up our friendship again.
In the case of this particular child, it’s a combination of things. He is as big, physically, as a 12 year old, but is only 8 and acts 6. But since he looks 12, people who don’t know him expect the behavior and social skills of a 12 year old, not a 6 year old.
Oh, okay. But being effusive isn’t ipso facto a sign of retardation, is it?
<minor nitpick>
One of the standard definitions of heathen is "uncivilized. Children can therefore be at least figuratively called “heathens”. The other standard meaning is a member of a people/nation/tribe that is unconverted and does not acknowledge the God of the Bible. Satan might be considered the arch-traitor, or arch-rebel, but it’s a bit of a stretch to “heathen”.
< end nitpick>
Not addressing the specifics of the OP, but I was made aware the other day how we can unconciously send messages to our kids and influence their behaviour, perhaps even encouraging traits that we are trying to teach them are inappropriate.
My little lad Alex is not yet two, but big and boisterous for his age and has recently taken to pushing over smaller children – even the same one repeatedly. My wife has scolded him each time, restrained him and explained (as much as possible) that pushing isn’t nice, and (depending on the circumstance and our familiarity with the other child) had him go and hug the child by way of apology… but he continues to persist in this behaviour.
A few days ago a friend was at our house with her small boy (a little younger than Alex), and Alex was again pushing. Our friend was looking after both boys, as my wife was busy with other people who were also visiting. During one of the episodes of pushing and resulting unhappiness my wife stopped (out of sight of Alex) to watch how our friend dealt with it. She gathered up her sad little boy and hugged him and just left Alex standing where he was… and he really didn’t like that, and got upset too. After watching this a couple of times my wife realised why – whilst she may have scolded Alex for pushing, she was then effectively hugging him while telling him what he’d done was wrong. Boiled down the message was getting very mixed – push someone over, Mummy scolds me and then hugs me.
We just hadn’t realised we were doing this – sending a mixed and weakened message, and possibly even encouraging the behaviour as we sought to discourage it. Sometimes seeing from another perspective can be quite illuminating.
My children know I kid.
Like when I kiss them on the forehead everynight at bed time and tell them “good night my little children of the corn”.
We laugh and giggle.
If you look at the things some of us have said about our children in past posts you would see that we hold nothing but love for them.
Like I said, some of us jest or we would crack.
It is good to let your children know that you have a sense of humor.
And as WeirdDave said having children is different than being around someone elses children.
We have to live with the ones we gave birth to. And sometimes have not given birth to.
I have five children, one of them being a step child, and by most of my posts you would never know it. She is as much mine as if I had given birth to her. But I will still tell her she’s a dork when she’s being silly.
This may sound odd and some people may not agree, but maybe if some of these parents who are hurting and killing their children knew that it was okay to be silly and laugh with them on occation, things would be different.
I don’t know, maybe it’s all in the context of how it’s said. You can’t see what is going on in my house through the computer as well I cannot see you. The expression on my face or the tone of my voice is also up to the readers imagination.
But I would like to think I have a bubbly enough personality online that nobody would take “heathens” as anything but an endearing term for my children.
Wow! Swiped food from your Plate? I think I would have been frozen in shock, too! And, later Wished I’d had the alertness to have done Any of the stuff folks have suggested!
Some many years back, I was on a (second) date with a beautiful model-pretty and very interesting/artistic woman. This date was my introduction to her son (7y.o. I think) at a restaurant that was a favorite of theirs.
It was on of those “fill your bowl with stuff then the guy throws it onto a hot grill and cooks it down to nearly nothing for you.”
The son had done ok through the line chatting and filling his bowl and explaining the place to me. (I’d never been to one before)
But when we sat to eat, he got bored in about 3 bites and was up, literally running around the restaurant, and then going over to fill another bowl of food to be cooked.
I caught his eye, as he dashed by and said something like, “You need to not run in a restaurant, come sit with us.” He actually calmed down some and did come and eat.
Later in the evening after the little guy was asleep, his mother threw me a scathing look and said, “I … am … Not … Used … to … some … one … Else … Correcting … My … Child!”
Each word in the sentence seemed to subtract 10% off of the original “very beautiful and interesting” evaluation.
Did I say “second date” … meant to say “last”
Had a good friend from Arkansas, had the most wonderful saying. When a child would be acting up, in any way, in a public place he’d gently say, (loudly enough to be heard at the nearest tables or theater seats … (add a soft southern accent), “Now, we’ll see how much class the mother/father has …” (adjusted based on which parent seemed to be with the child)
Took, I think correctly, all the annoyed focus off the child and placed that sense of annoyed onto the appropriate target.
Sorry, Rilch, I should have been clearer when I mentioned this. I certainly don’t think he’s retarded and being effusive isn’t a sign of retardation. It’s just that he looks a lot older than he actually is and people who meet him for the first time assume that he is much older and will behave accordingly. It’s not often you see 12 year olds going up to complete strangers, introducing themselves, and demanding hugs or handshakes. It seems to put people off because it is out of character for a 12 year old–but, he’s only 8 and acts younger than that. I think if he looked his age it wouldn’t be an issue. Personally, though, I wouldn’t be comfortable with my youngest (who’s 7) just approaching strangers like that. I don’t want to make my children terrified of strangers, but I do want them to be cautious around people they don’t know.
Wyatt, your friend from Arkansas is a man after my own heart. I love that phrase - I’m so sad that I can’t use it myself. I’d never pull it off, being a Northerner.
Whenever my mother sees a child behaving like a monster, and the parents doing nothing, she always says, “You love your children, but you want other people to love them, too.”
I have to share a story here. This is about my grandmother, who was quite the little lady. She was widowed in the late 50’s, and left with 2 small children to raise. These were the days when a woman was either a teacher, a nurse, or a secretary. She went to work for the railroad for 20 years and raised her family. As hokey as it is, the term “Steel Magnolia” describes her perfectly. She was a soft-spoken Southern Lady, but she had a lot of gumption and this amazing sense of fun.
She had a brother in Dallas, who had 3 daughters and a son. David was the youngest by quite a lot, and was babied by the rest of the family. He was so spoiled that he would throw temper tantrums. To ward them off, the family would give him a piece of hard candy when they sensed a fit of temper coming on, and called them, “Fit Pills.” David got to where he’d say, “I feel a fit coming on. Give me a Fit Pill!” And whoever was near him would give him candy to stop the tantrum.
Once Nanny and my mom were visiting, and David decided he wanted a Fit Pill. He screamed, “I feel a fit coming on–GIVE ME A FIT PILL!” Nanny calmly said, “Fit Pill? I’ve never heard of a Fit Pill. But we simply don’t throw tantrums like that.” And then she threw a glass of water in the kid’s face when he wouldn’t stop screaming.
I loved my grandmother.
lauramarlane: Okay, I see what you’re getting at.
I think because most 8 year olds know better than to try and hug total strangers. That’s beyond outgoing and going into pushy.
Dadblamed hamsters ate my first post!
ROUND TWO!!
October your Nanny and my mom would have got along just fine! That is the exact solution my Mom took with me when I was a tantrum inclined small child. I suggested it to a friend of mine whose daught threw tantrums.
Friend: But wont it traumatize her?
Me I dunno… I dont think it did me.
Now she is stuck with a 10 yr old that expects INSTANT gratification for her whims. My friend admits its her fault.
kputt technically speaking my child IS a heathen. We are a NON Christian family.
Kricket I too tease my son. I tell him the Man child belongs in the man village and he tells me I belong in my own village. We both know its teasing…
Pfft, Amateur.
I would have come over and quietly informed her that I had just sneezed over the plate he grabbed from and that I had
[select as needed]
Wenkeback Syndrome
Cheyne Stokes
Torsades
Skin Turgor
Hypovolemia
Anaphalaxis
Pericardial Tamponade
Orthostatic Hypotension
Syncope
Ataxia
Gastroschisis
[/select as needed]
Not that you can catch any of these but I bet the stupid bitch at the table would’nt know that and promptly scoop up their angel and run for the ER and scream that her child has been exposed to schizoaffective disorder or something and needs to be immunized immediately
There are a few thousand women right here who’ll argue that wench is not an offensive term and is in fact complimentary. 
Doesn’t ‘wench’ just mean ‘woman’?