Civility Costs Nothing (long)

The BBQ Pit
1

Okay, my first rant. Spot the bit where I get gratuitously over the top. But I could not resist.

This happened a couple of years ago, and when I think of it, unlike many other previous shitty situations, I still get mad thinking about it. So let us see if I can lay this mental anguish of mine to rest in the hallowed pit.

I was travelling around Thailand on me own, and having a wonderful time of it. At one point I was taking a mini bus axi back to Bangkok Airport with two fellow UK passengers (a couple) , an Aussie bloke, a Canadian bloke and a – hell I cannot remember her nationality, but the passenger was a girl (possibly American?).

I only tell of the sexes and nationalities so you get the flavour of the situation and who is who – it is NOT intended to stereotype any nationality.

So there we are, hurtling through the steamy streets of Bangkok (apart from the times we hit those notorious traffic jams – or is it one big fuck off jam…), and I was feeling very travel tired and hung over, and the Canadian fella, sat next to me, was enthusiastically chatting with the American girl, sat in front of us, about their experiences in Thailand. This was my third time in the country, and it was great to hear fellow travellers talk of their positive experiences. Personally I was not saying much because, as I said, I was hungover and had a bad case of the silent stares where all ones energy is taken up by an alcohol sodden brain trying vainly to fix itself back together again.

So, about 20 mins into the journey, and the Canadian is still on a high.
Then… bummer. Aussie chap behind us interrupts –
“’scuse me mate, but you aren’t Canadian by any chance are you?”
Canadian guy: “Yes I am… err, why?”
Aussie: “Well, I don’t know if it is a national character trait or something but you Canadians never seem to shut up, yap yap yap yap ”
C: “uh, oh I see, ok, well…”
A: “well, I think you will find if you listen more and yap less you might learn something”
C: “I am sorry, I will try to um, talk less…”

My first thought was… listen to WHO more you daft twat, no one else is talking, and there were frequent pauses in the conversation where others could have politely spoke of their experiences or whatever – you want him to LEARN more? – Then why not issue forth some pearls of wisdom from your own experiences then rather than just put a total fucking downer on the atmosphere? LEARNING is supposed to be a positive experience. What the fuck are YOU doing to engage his mind in a positive learning experience? Knob.

Then the fellow UK travellers behind Aussie thank him for his interjection “thanks for that mate” WTF!!!

Now, let me make something clear – the way the Aussie was talking to the Canadian – his tone was nasty, snide, vindictive and aggressive. .

The Canadian was not exactly endowed with muscle – I wonder, if he had been built like a big fuckoff shithouse, whether Mr oh so strong silent coolly cynical Aussie would have been so forward with his opinions. Nope, I doubt it. Fucking pathetic bully.

What also fucks me off is the way some people speak of such characters –“oh, I like him, he don’t give a fuck and will speak his mind and tell you what he really thinks of you.” Um… noooo these snivelling twats are no better than animals – if they sense that you are weaker than them, they will launch a face to face attack, for no better reason than some deep primal urge to score points on some imagined social ranking table constructed by their pathetic excuse for an imagination. But if they sense you are stronger than them, they will lurk in the shadows, sneering behind your back. For some reason NO ONE has ever spoke to me like that – the worse I have ever come across has been cowardly whispering campaigns. Say it to my face you yellow scum.

Aussie chap, you are a pathetic rotting steaming squishy wet black cowardly turd so fucking foul, flies and dung beetles will not grace it with their presence. You stunk up the whole atmos of that minibus with your vile base aggressive attack.

I am also angry with myself for not saying anything- my brain was exploding; thermo-fucking-nuclear. All the words wanted to come out at the same time and I had a hangover bottleneck of …err… inarticulateness. It also caught me completely off guard – I am just not used to this, especially among fellow travellers where everyone is on a high positive vibe from escaping the rat race (albeit temporarily). In a way it is a good job I did not say anything as things could have escalated to violence pretty damn quickly – the atmosphere did not just suddenly plummet downhill, it turned very menacing, as if Aussie guy was leaking testosterone all over the place - you could almost taste it.

So, what was Aussie wazzock’s problem? Can only speculate here. That someone’s positive vibes were messing up his studied hip cool cynical vibe? Hungover? Misanthropist? Canadian guy just grated on him? Whatever his problem was, there was NO excuse for the way he spoke to him.

Sometimes, I find some people inexplicably grate on me too – shit, it happens, we cannot all like each other. But if it is in a place from where I cannot make my escape I just button it. What is the point in nasty base aggressive character assassination just because you have an irrational dislike for someone? I am not talking about where someone is carrying out an anti social activity for which they deserve to be called out. I am talking about where someone is in effect minding their own business and yet, they annoy you. Sometimes I even feel misanthropic myself and just do not want to be around people – in which case I either take steps to carry out any activities I must in a way that involves meeting as few people of the type that would irrationally wind me up as possible. And where I cannot avoid them, I keep it shut. Try to treat people as you wish to be treated yourself. Civility costs nothing.

And yup I know that there is a contradiction here and I could be accused of hypocrisy – why would I say this “behind the Aussies back”… As I said – I was off guard. And this is the pit dammit!!!

I did formulate what for me, under the circumstances was the perfect reply (after I boarded my flight – I am slow like that, bah!)

… take it from the end of the above exchange between Aussie and Canadian:

Me, to Canadian guy – “Hey, no, mate I was enjoying your recounting of your experiences and what you hoped to do next, carry on, it aint like Aussie can actually do anything to stop you”.

At this point it would be up to Aussie to either drop this or take it further. I gave myself a real hard time over not saying anything at the time. My only consolation was that after we disembarked off the minibus I hung around to tell the Canadian chap that he shouldn’t let such bad tempered ignorant tossers like Aussie get him down and carry on as he is; and I apologised for not jumping to his defence. He was cool with it, and I think a little relieved to find that, apart form the American girl, he was not totally reviled by all his fellow passengers. I could tell he was really upset, he looked like he was shaking and shit. Fuck, it really sets me off when I see people cause others to get upset like that. Also, I gave the Aussie my famous nemesis “fuck you psycho-stares” as he disembarked and flounced off like some spoilt prima donna, who is used to getting everything his own way, into the airport.

Now, any Aussies reading this post, it aint a dig at you guys, all other Aussies I have met have been among some of the coolest laid back fellow travellers I have come across. Every country has its fair share of cool people and wanky knuckle dragging barely simian muppets, including my own (god don’t I know it, I live here).

Oooooooo I feel better now. I feel like I have just sweated poison out of my system

2

::shrug:: The Aussie does sound like a jerk. Is it possible he fancied the girl and thought the Canadian was monopolising her a bit? Still stupid, but might explain why he said something.

Nothing you can do now - jumping in might only have made things nastier. But watch out for times you can stand up to peopel in the future…

3

Good point, never thought of that – and I forgot to mention, the American girl did say something about him being rude, (apologies wherever you are, i did not credit you with your positive contribution to this story. She actually DID attempt to stick up for Canadian guy, whereas i was lamely fumbling around for the sharpest comment i could come up with :wally ) As it was, her comments got drowned out by more self opinionated ego laden prattle from Aussie - more was said than i quoted, but it was more of the same. As it was two years ago, i am just recounting the bits i can clearly recall.

4

According to the Aussie jerk, Canadians have a reputation for being prattling motormouths? I’ve also heard that Canadians are noted for their friendliness, and also called cold and stand-offish. Shows how accurate stereotypes are, I guess.

Not saying this to make you feel worse, nemesis, but it probably did really hurt the Canadian guy’s feelings, because by-and-large, we Canadians are a very polite bunch that just wouldn’t say something like that, and he probably has rarely been talked to like that in a situation like that before (I know I haven’t). (Not to play up to any stereotype, eh? :D)

5

If it had made me mad (and I can only say things like this when I’m VERY mad), I’d have said something like “Excuse me, are you Australian? Cuz iI don’t know if it’s a national character trait or something, but in my experience Australians are rude insensitive jerks.”

And I used to work for an company based in Australia. Unfortunately, it changed my mind about Australians.

No offense to any Aussies out there that are actually nice people. I did meet one or two.

6

The Aussie was obviously going through crocodile-wrestling withdrawl.

7

OK, so two sentences spoken by an Aussie generates this:

“Aussie chap, you are a pathetic rotting steaming squishy wet black cowardly turd so fucking foul, flies and dung beetles will not grace it with their presence. You stunk up the whole atmos of that minibus with your vile base aggressive attack.”

…seems a bit over the top to me.

Now I know the Aussie tourist stereotype, especially in SE Asia, is that of a beer-swilling, chundering, leering, feel-up-the-local-girls-coz-that’s-all-they’re-good-for, packrat animal that causes more damage to the local environment than he spends in tourist money. It’s hard to argue against it as there are some Aussies like that - especially the end-of-season sporting team travelling together. If I was there, I would try to be an example against it.

Now, our (Australian) perception of the North American tourist is one who compares everything (invariably unfavourably) to what he has back home, and the talks/listens ratio is very much skewed to the former. It leaves you wondering why they bothered to travel, if they are too busy nonlearning. Remember, this isn’t a universal, just the existing perception. When you turn up, YOU have to prove it wrong, otherwise we run with our prejudices. I suspect these very prejudices kicked in when the Canadian made 99% of the conversation.

PS extrapolating Crocodile Dundee to be typical of all Aussies is like using Jesse James as a template for all Yanks. Only a small minority of us live outside the suburbs - two-thirds of us live in the seven capital cities.

8

Indeed, although i only knew the guy for the duration of the journey to the airport, he seemed to me to be a very agreeable affable sort with nary a bad bone in his body.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by BalmainBoy **

OK, so two sentences spoken by an Aussie generates this:

“Aussie chap, you are a pathetic rotting steaming squishy wet black cowardly turd so fucking foul, flies and dung beetles will not grace it with their presence. You stunk up the whole atmos of that minibus with your vile base aggressive attack.”

…seems a bit over the top to me**.

Aye - i concede that it is, and definitely in retrospect - although at the time it was how i felt. It was the reason i wrote “Spot the bit where I get gratuitously over the top” at the start of the thread. As this is the Pit, i figured i could be as yuky as i want :smiley:

But also note that it was not just what he said, but the way it was said. And more was said subsequently, but my memory his hazy on the specifics - it is just the beginning of a one way exchange (oxymoron?) that is permanently etched on my mind.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by BalmainBoy **
Now I know the Aussie tourist stereotype, especially in SE Asia, is that of a beer-swilling, chundering, leering, feel-up-the-local-girls-coz-that’s-all-they’re-good-for, packrat animal that causes more damage to the local environment than he spends in tourist money. It’s hard to argue against it as there are some Aussies like that - especially the end-of-season sporting team travelling together. If I was there, I would try to be an example against it.**

I do know what you mean - we are all, individually in a small way - and collectively in a big way, ambassadors for our countries when travelling abroad. I face a similar situation when i meet fellow Europeans. The negative image of the British, amongst Europeans is of the beer swilling loutish oafish ignorant violent football hooligan. It is unfortunately the loudest most obnoxious people who make the most trouble that attract all the attention
ews. I am aware that in some cases, i too have to work against such negative stereotyping when travelling. And with a shaved head, standing at 6’3’’, medium build, with a very very broad northern accent, some people are initially wary of me. After a few seconds of conversation, they soon find that I am a pussycat.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by BalmainBoy
Now, our (Australian) perception of the North American tourist is one who compares everything (invariably unfavourably) to what he has back home, and the talks/listens ratio is very much skewed to the former. It leaves you wondering why they bothered to travel, if they are too busy nonlearning.

This kind of tourist, i have found, cuts across national boundaries. They bemuse me greatly. Why they bother to travel i have no idea. You want everything in a different country with a completely different culture to be just like home? Stay home!!!

I must say, despite what is to all intents and purposes a negative “bug up my ass” post here, i found 99.999% of my time, and experiences with the locals and fellow travellers of all nationalities, a very enriching, educating and rewarding experience.
:cool: I had been to Thailand four times - and that was the only real negative experience i had, and i think that is why it has stuck in my mind so badly, for so long (though I don’t think about it every day- just when I start thinking of going away again). It was staining my memories of some really cool times, so i thought i would pop in here, and see if i could exorcise it :smiley:
.

9

:o oh bugger i appear to have fudged up the quotes - and we cannot edit - mods? I don’t suppose this could be tidied up? :frowning:

10

nemesis, first let me thank you for being the first person I’ve ever seen use the word “wazzock” in print. You wouldn’t be from Lancashire, would you? I was wondering how it was spelled and most people I know here in the states don’t know it exists.

Mods will fix coding errors if spoken to nicely. You can speak to them nicely by clicking on the Report this post to a moderator button. They’re a good bunch, considering the job they have to do. To close a quote tag or any other tag, you put a / between the bracket and the word you used to start a tag, so, substituting {}s for 's, it’s {quote}I appear to have fudged up the quotes{/quote}.

I spent a lot of years working in tourism in Hawaii and learned that rudeness and politeness know no national boundaries, with the possible exception of Australians. I used to find it ironic to hear Americans complaining about Japanese acting the same way Americans were accused of acting back 20 or 30 years earlier. At least when you’re working in tourism, you know the obnoxious ones will eventually go home!

CJ

11

Well spotted :D, indeed i am from the Lancashire area.

And thanks for the advice on quoting multiple, erm… quotes :slight_smile:

12

You know, I have to wonder if the other passengers were just tired of hearing this guy talk. I know if I were trying to get somewhere, held up in traffic, and thus already irritable, the last thing I’d want to hear is someone talking incessantly. Hell, even if I weren’t cranky, after somebody had talked 20 minutes straight I’d be wondering if he were ever planning to shut up, or if we were going to hear the wonders of his vacation through the entire traffic jam.

Or perhaps he was talking too loudly. If people two rows behind him were longing for him to give it a rest, then he was probably a bit loud for conversation in a public transport.

13

Yeah, but there’s a way to say these things. A simple, “Excuse me, mate…d’you think you could keep it down?” would suffice. He didn’t have to bring nationality into it. Much less lecture about how he “might learn more” if they talked less. Based on the OP, it sounds likely that the Canadian did learn a lot while he was in Thailand, and wanted to share his findings with someone.

14

Rilchiam - um, you took the words out of my mouth (off my keyboard? :p) there. That is exactly the point. I do not care that the others took a personal dislike to the fella. That is their prerogative It was the nasty and aggressive way he was told to shaddap.

I can appreciate what CrazyCat is doing here - i have a feeling she is doing what i try to do sometimes - if someone comes up to me with a tale of how horrible someone has either been to them, or to someone else etc, i try to figure out from the story i am being told why the “perp” might act in such a way. I try to see it from the “bad guys \ assholes” point of view. There are two sides to every story. But from what i wrote, i had thought that it was obvious these people were indeed fed up with the Canadian chap. Re-reading it now, i did devote some lines to how i wondered what the Aussie’s problem was. And that whatever it was, i can assure people that there was no excuse for the WAY in which he spoke to Candian chap.

But i dunno, maybe Aussie felt bad about it after?

The other thing is that when you travel independently, there will always be people chatting excitedly, while in transit form one destination to the other, about their adventures and exploits. If you don’t want to hear this kinda talk, get a taxi! :stuck_out_tongue: That was one of my other thoughts at the time.

Another point is that as stated i was very hung over. I also only had about two hours sleep. I was in a very fragile state. In such a state i am VERY sensitive to loud things. So i find it difficult to believe that he was to loud for the Aussie and fellow Brits behind me.

15

i know - to loud - should be too loud. duh.