Benign assumptions that are race based have a tendency to be repeated ad nauseam. It isn’t that one time I vividly remember from my past, it’s a buzzing drone of explanation and redirection, or just ignoring the mistake because you’re tired of explaining.
Sure, I have no doubt that that happens and it is very annoying.
Thanks for clarifying. And thanks for investigating the interaction.
Of course not. I think that what he said was racist, but i think the OP is a mature adult trying to do the right thing, based on his attempting to understand the situation, and why his coworker took offense.
As I’ve said above, i think we all have racist impulses, and have to step out of our perspective and look at things from other’s perspective to avoid carelessly engaging in small racist actions like the OP’s.
Also
And finally, I’m old enough and have a large enough vocabulary that i used to use “niggardly”, because it sounds sort of cool and is more fun to say than “cheap”. But I’ve stopped. There are plenty of other words that mean that same thing and that won’t lead people to think i might be secretly trying to say a much worse word. But from that, I’m very familiar with the word, and how it can be used innocently.
That’s not close to an innocent use of the word. It doesn’t even makes sense in that sentence. My first reaction to that sentence was “huh?” because it doesn’t parse. Without context, my second reaction would be to wonder why he used that word. And my third would be to conclude that his intention was to cuddle up close that word i don’t want to say.
I think your misstep here was naturally assuming based on his heritage that he was an expert on Indian culture.
If he was the guy who you knew while at work often mentioned stuff about India, it’s people, history or culture, or times he visited his family or hosted guests from back home, one might then naturally assume he has some native insights.
As it were you singled him out for no other reason than his obvious heritage. A social blunder nothing more imo.
“Stingy” is perhaps the most common one in my neck of the woods.
You’re all getting close enough. This thread is not about accusing one another of anything, it’s about the narrative in the OP and a general discussion of racist behavior. Do not make this personal here, towards anyone. This note goes out to everyone.
RickJay
Moderator
When I skimmed the thread last night I thought you were talking about David Howard. I agree that that was an over-reaction to an innocent vocabulary quirk. He should just have gotten a talking to. While he did land on his feet, I suppose it could be looked at as some people seeing racism where none existed.
I have no idea what to make of the Broward county incident. I can’t make any sense of “niggardly dumb.” The guy sounds unprofessional at the very least. I’m guessing there is more to the story.
I;m really looking for an instance where someone was just called a racist out of the blue, with nothing instigating it. Even in the Howard case–and I agree there was a ridiculous and unfair reaction–he did say niggardly, which does sound a lot like the n word. But the Howard case is pretty close.
I have been hoping that I have managed to remain polite. My anger has come close to boiling over a couple of times.
I will say that I bear no grudge or anger against the OP. I hope this whole thing has amounted to an opportunity to learn what it feels like to be on the other side.
It is clear that some people have not taken advantage of such an opportunity.
Better than you. You were objecting to them putting words in your mouth that you didn’t say/write. When they were in fact using different words to try to illustrate the point. The fact that you didn’t get it is a you problem. We can explain it to you, we can’t understand it for you, and frankly I didn’t have the crayons for it. That’s sarcasm, just so you don’t have to look it up.
Moderating:
Way too personal and insulting for IMHO. Mod note this time. Please don’t do this again.
Just for the record, I wasn’t insulted. I love it.
This is exactly my approach. I try not to be racist. I assume there are ways that I am racist in ways I’m unaware of. I try to learn ahead of time, but you never know.
My best friend is black. (No, that alone doesn’t make me non-racist, duh.) In the five years we’ve known each other he has certainly widened my awareness of how this shit manifests in everyday life. It’s not like I didn’t believe the stories before. His personal accounts of being detained for matching a description or having epithets yelled at him in public make me want to try harder. It’s maddening that we’re not nearly as far along as I thought, and that I was naïve about it.
The OP example sounds like an obvious case of prejudice based on outward appearance of race/ethnicity/national origin/what have you. Whether the assumption was likely accurate or even true is immaterial to the racism aspect.
I try not to be racist and I engage with people who feel aggrieved due to racial issues negatively affecting them - I’ve been there too, so I understand it to some extent.
But I don’t live in the USA, so maybe that’s part of why I don’t see such a problem here. However, having said that, this thread has made me tip more towards seeing a problem that I never thought existed before. It was a problem that he assumed someone was a resident expert in the ethnicity that they presented themselves as coming from. I see that now, I think.
How much of a problem is it? I’m still undecided.
Hate to bring up my own situation but let me just quickly say that there is a tactic among Japanese academics to look at western ideas of social improvement that don’t jibe with Japanese social ideals and take them to extremes to make them seem foolish. In that way, it is easy for the Japanese society to dismiss them as rubbish. One example I can give is on the topic of domestic violence. It is tolerated in Japan as a personal relationship issue to a great extent. So some Japanese academics have published papers stating that even a small verbal disagreement with your spouse is “domestic violence”. This neuters the advances in domestic violence prevention because is promotes the very idea as absurd. It is a weakening tactic.
So what I am saying is, you can listen to people and try to empathize with them, but at the end of the day, blindly agreeing with what they say has pitfalls too. I wouldn’t do it.
So what do you say to those of us who tell you that we have spent our lives being “forever” foreign and want people to stop doing it.
You have to do what you think is right, of course. I wish you the best and hope you don’t get too stressed. I know how you feel dude, but if you let it get to you it will eat you up from the inside. You’re commendable for doing your part, but I fear people ain’t gonna change very soon (not around me anyway). I am forever foreign and I just deal with it. That might not work for everyone though.
BTW was the OP really “forever foreigner” -ing his coworker, just to think that he might have extra knowledge about a place? I feel that’s reaching.
Yes. No one asks people of German or Dutch extraction to comment on stuff local to Germany or the Netherlands based on their parents having been born there. Because people of German and Dutch extraction aren’t seen as “foreign”.
They certainly won’t if nobody ever says anything about it.
People ask me all the time about what foreigners think and do. I’m of German extraction.
They treat you as the resident expert on the German post office? Do you talk a lot about Germany? I’ve never seen anyone called out in that way regarding Germany.
No, and I never said they did. Many have said “are you German”?