I agree totally with Esprix (don’t I usually?). But he’s got me thinking (and at 9:30 in the morning, too!) . . . What about calling someone a “bastard?” A lot of people are bastards, and it’s not even their FAULT.
Well, using “cocksucker” as an insult or saying “blow me” to demean someone is in our genes as an aggressive species. In most mammals, mounting behavior is a way of exerting dominance over submissive animals. This behavior is seen in rabbits,dogs,
cats, and apes, among others.
In prisons, otherwise heterosexual men will use sex and mounting as signs of dominance and submission. After all, if a a tough con fucks another, the submissive one gets called a “bitch” and treated like property. Even in same-sex colleges and naval ships, straight men will engage in “pretend sex” as an unconscious ranking behavior. So when somebody says, “eat me,” just rap them sharply on the nose with a rolled up newspaper until they turn over and over their bellies as a sign that you are the dominant. Oops, that’s dogs. Umm, take them to a nice hotel and say, “bend over, I’ll drive.”
For myself, I take pride in the soubriquet, “cocksucker.” Everybody has to have a talent, and I’m lucky enough to have found mine.
I don’t use it but I have a friend that loves to say cocksucker.
More to the point he (a straight male) often insults other straight males with “suck my cock” or his favorite seems to be “suck my fucking cock.”
I can honestly say I have never taken it as an insult in the way the OP sugests. I’ve never sucked a cock. I don’t plan on it and insulting me with “suck my cock” is not something I would interpret as an instruction/invitation.
It’s just an insult quickly returned with some other insult.
As I think about it something else does come into play:
If my friend was around a gay guy I tend to doubt he would direct the insult “suck my fucking cock” towards him.
I think it all comes down to intention and perception. Most people IMO don’t intend for “cocksucker” to be taken literally, and I for one never percive it literally.
But now that you have cast doubt on an otherwise good curse I would like to say (something mildly insulting) you!
However now I can’t fill in the (something) with anything.
What is going to happen to words like fuck you, kiss my ass, bite me, go take a flying fuck, etc.
Esprix, can you re-think this?
I was lurking at the time (not having an AOL account), and while I didn’t see the original line, I do seem to recall that Roshni got the most credit for it.
Hey, Nanny Nanny
How would he know?
Anyway, I’ve given up “cocksucker” for obvious reasons (except as I use “faggot” to refer to myself and friends). Instead I say motherfucker. Or I tell someone to bite my arse. Or I just swear in French, where they do not say “that sucks” (they say “that makes me shit” instead.)
Woohoo! You go, boy!
Let’s form a club, for people who’ve lost their gag reflexes! The Chin Slappers! The Tonsil Bangers! The Esophagus Jockeys! I wanna be vice president!
My wife hates it when I use “cunt” as an expletive. So I try to use it as little as possible because, well, I don’t want her to stop being a cocksucker
A friend from northern England calls people “donkey”. I love the way he say it: “doonkay!”. It’s just goofy-sounding enough to be insulting, yet you can say it in front of your grandmother! For a more vigorous insult, just add some colorful description:
you’re a steaming pile of donkey smegma
Of course I’m talking about when men call other men by such names, which, by my experience, is the vast majority of cases - personally, I’ve rarely seen anyone call a woman such names, one, because it seems to me men are more reluctant to insult a woman as quickly as they would another man, and, two, since society assumes everyone is heterosexual, calling a woman a “cocksucker” is kind of, well, redundant. (Of course, if someone calls me such names, my response is, “Well duh…” Kinda takes the oomph out of their punch.)
And, of course, my view is skewed, but when you’re called these names when people find out you’re gay, hearing other people use them as epithets makes them that much more pointed.
I do understand that at least “cocksucker” (perhaps not its more colorful cousins, the ones that require more thought than just knee-jerk) is as inured to the common lexicon as “fuck you” (which, as was pointed out, would ostensibly be a pleasurable thing to the recipient, so why is it an insult?). Still, it rankles me every time I hear it.
Furthermore, it seems to be fairly prevalent on the SDMB, of course in The Pit - why is this? I’m all for ranting (it can be healthy), and I won’t say that by swearing you somehow “lose your argument” by having to “resort” to such language, but name-calling does often come off, at least to me, as a last-ditch defense of an argument. (Now, if you’re ranting about someone in particular, that’s different, as it’s the whole point. Still, calling someone the equivalent of “faggot” doesn’t exactly push your complaint forward much - at that point, you’ve lost me on your side, most likely.)
Mnementh, for what it’s worth, I’m glad you changed your behavior, although, as I said, I’m not advocating PC speech in swear words. But thanks for the kind words anyway - nice to know we make a difference even in some small way. Fighting ignorance one person at a time, it seems…
Eve, you make a good point about “bastard,” but you don’t hear the term used in common usage much like you would “faggot.” (I have yet to hear in a schoolyard, “You don’t have a daddy? You bastard!”) Similarly, the only time you hear “bitch” is in dog breeding circles, although calling someone a dog is a good insult, I suppose. Still, a good point. And thanks for agreeing with me.
waxteeth, this is my point - you’re not gay, so if someone told you to suck a cock, it would be gross and disgusting to you, which, yes, makes it an insult. However, it’s as natural to me as birds take to flight, so using it as an insult insults who I am. Is that the point of insults? Sure. But really, would you call someone a “faggot?” IMHO, if you’re a guy and you’re calling another guy “cocksucker,” you just did.
For those who might ask, my knee-jerk swear is “shut the fuck up,” but the penultimate is “God-damned mother-fucking son-of-a-bitch bastard asshole!”
Scylla, as to your question about “queer,” yes and no - it’s been covered in a couple of different threads, including the Gay Guy threads. Basically, if you’re using it to refer to the gay community in a societal or political sense, don’t sweat it, 'cause we use it, too, but start whining about those “goddamned queers,” and the gloves are off.
Oh, and lissener, if my boy was anything to shout about last night (and shout he did!), I get to be president.
Somewhere in my files I have a cite from the 1950s or 60s regarding the word cocksucker. The story is told of a policeman whose beat (heh heh) is men’s restrooms. He waits for gay men to come in and proposition other men for sexual encounters. At one point he warns a famous actor to move it along. The man being propositioned says, “Do you know who that was?” and the cop replies, “Just some cocksucker.”
From this, I would guess that cocksucker was indeed originally a homosexually perjorative term, with the specific intention wearing off after a while (much like bastard, mentioned above) because it just sounds so nasty. When I worked construction, it would have been ruder not to use it, actually. (Had anyone on the job site voiced objections, I’d have knocked it off.)
[hastily exits thread with one wing protectively clamped over nether regions]
Well, as a “plain-vanilla” sort of male I really LIKE the term. It rolls off the tongue, combines with various modifiers, and expresses my rage with someone quite well. My original thought on the OP was “so what?” During a heated confrontation with an opponent, his morals, appearance, personal hygiene and ancestry are all fair game so what’s the problem with throwing his sexual practices in as well? The purpose is, after all, to insult and degrade.
Unfortunately, I see your point. I’ve just accused someone of being gay and equated that with a being a wretched thing to be. Well damn, there goes another perfectly good insult.
As far as calling some woman a “cocksucker,” I couldn’t imagine actually using the term, “You wretched cocksucker!” No, it just doesn’t work. The hopeful expression on my face would spoil the whole thing. S
Anyway, you made me think about it so thanks for that.
Reminds me of the time I was hanging out with a female friend of mine, and several times she exclaimed “Bite My Ass!” Unfortunately, when I went to actually bite her ass, she turned around and sharply said “don’t you dare.” Damn women sending mixed signals.
Actually, the one thing that “cocksucker” has over other exclamations is that it has all of those hard, guttaral “c” and “k” sounds so that you can just spit it out.
My parents were married. I EARNED the title.
An insult is designed to be hurtful. The specific terminology reveals one or more of the following elements: the attitudes of the speaker, the attitudes the speaker perceives/assumes in the target, underlying cultural prejudices, historical developments in language. Prejudice against homosexuals exists and might be reflected in all of the above elements.
You know that. We all know that. When someone uses faggot or cocksucker or jewboy or liberal or fundie or heathen or fascist or mickey mouse as an insult, the words can be revealing. Whether it reveals deep-seeded prejudice or simple verbal habit is probably best decided on a case-by-case basis. Few people are at their most self-analytical when spewing profanity. It is rarely an occassion for the celebration of humanity’s universal brotherhood.
Why not? And if not, then why share the idea that it “bugs you”? PC is simply the idea that people should be aware of the affect their words have upon others. Isn’t that exactly what your asking? So what if others have perverted the idea into censorship. Isn’t allowing others to define what’s offensive the very idea you are objecting to? Don’t shy away from the term. Be PC and be proud!
You cocksucking bastard.
Well, I still hold on to my hypothesis that “cocksucker” is an evolutionary vestige of a primordial urge to use sexual aggression as a sign of dominant status. It’s not a conscious anti-gay slur as much as one chimp mounting another to show who’s boss.
Not to get too graphic, but I don’t think that forcing fellatio is a wise idea if you want to try and force dominance on someone else. The one performing the fellatio is in the position of power, right?
Therefore calling someone a cocksucker isn’t asserting power over them. When they’re doing it, they have the power.
Similarly, calling someone an “assfucker” is also a perjorative, but by your logic it would be complementary as that person would be asserting power.
So, we have perjoratives “cocksucker,” and “assfucker,” but both seem to refer to the dominant (i.e. superior position.)
Interestingly, we don’t have a common perjorative for the male submissive position other that the lukewarm “sissy,” or “bitch.”
Calling someone either of these isn’t as big an insult as calling them a cocksucker though.
So, I see flaws with your idea that the term is reflective of male “mounted” dominance games.
If it did then the term would be reflective of the guy being mounted, not the mounter.
And if I didn’t say that clearly, what I mean is that the insult should describe the one being dominated, not the one doing the domination.
Scylla, you need to watch more gay porn. The dude on his knees, being towered over by the guy who’s penetrating his face, is, in the semiotics of gay sex, the dominated one.
The symbology is age old: the fucker is seen to be dominating the fuckee, no matter what the variation.
nope, Scylla, Lisser is correct. In every gay porn (not to mention prison flick) I’ve ever seen, the fellator is the submissive or “bottom” (don’t snicker, top and bottom are common in both hetero and homo flavors of S&M), and the one getting blown is the dominant.
nope, Scylla, Lisser is correct. In every gay porn (not to mention prison flick) I’ve ever seen, the fellator is the submissive or “bottom” (don’t snicker, top and bottom are common terms in both hetero and homo flavors of S&M), and the one getting blown is the dominant.