Coldfire, get off of Lumpy's back!

The BBQ Pit
#1

This post is in reference to Lumpy’s post at Embarrassing Things You Can’t Admit IRL

Gee Coldfire, I wonder why Lumpy won’t admit the sister thing in real life? I wonder why he won’t respond to your haranguing?

Could it be that he’s afraid he’ll get the reaction you gave him? Could it be that the poor guy feels terrible about the incident and wishes he could take it back so he can be friends with his sister again? Have some compassion and get off the guy’s back. He was young and did something very stupid.

You said:

Excuse me, but do you remember going through puberty? I’m female and I went through an extremely horny period which I will not detail. I made some very bad decisions with my hormones instead of my brain.

If you insist that you would never have done what Lumpy did when you were his age, you are assuming that Lumpy had the same mental maturity that you did. That’s just wrong.

For the record, I believe that ** unwanted** sexual contact is a bad thing and that offenders should be locked up and the key be thrown away…

I also find incest disgusting.

The following excerpt is from http://www.intimacyinstitute.com/sex_data/topics/incest.html

Incest is taboo in our culture. It is not illegal. If I want to have sex with my father, I can.

Rape is illegal. Sexual harassment is illegal.

How was Lumpy supposed to know that his sister was not interested… unless he asked?

Men are from Mars, women are from Venus, dogs are from Pluto. - Anonymous

#2

This is getting into a dark area. I think my dad and my brother (one now gone) are/were very attractive. Even in my most desperate fit of heat I wouldn’t take one as my lover. It is a taboo in my head for sure.

However, this taboo doesn’t extend to the other males outside of my immediate family. I’ve taken several of my first cousins and it doesn’t bother me at all. It’s not like I was going to fall in love and have two-headed children with them. I just had an itch they could scratch. We were young, it was fun, no harm done. It’s always fun to see them, now, at family reunions!

Don’t feel bad, Lumpy, about asking. You just ASKED! You didn’t try to make her! FTR my brother asked me if I wanted to, “do it” when he was 11 and I was 10. I thought about it but figured if we got caught we were going to get our hides tanned so I said no. He then said he was glad because he wasn’t too sure how to “do it” anyway. Neither was I!

The moon looks on many flowers, the flowers on but one moon.

#3

Coldfire - You rail Lumpy for admitting something that you find pretty disgusting, but you seem very interested in knowing all the juicy details. Why? If it offends you so much, just ignore it. Honestly, you sound like one of those people who marches against pornography, and then goes home to secretly read all the Hustlers you’ve got stashed under the bed.

#4

Okay, I suppose my reaction is needed to clarify a few things.

Let me quote myself, from that very thread:

" So far, I’m not judging. It mainly depends on his answer whether I judge him or not.

Granted we do stupid things when we’re young, but then I’m thinking more along the lines of shoplifting for candy or, I dunno, stealing you dad’s car or something. Not something of this magnitude.

I just hope it’s a joke, that’s all. And if it isn’t, I sure as hell reserve the right to be VERY opinionated about someone who would do such a thing.

But, so far, no judgement here. Utter amazement, yes. Judgement, no. "

I thought that was pretty clear. I’ve made no judgement whatsoever, and I will not do so untill I know the statement is legitimate and not just a joke.

If it’s true, I’m sure the guy feels terrible about it. Hell, he posted it in the “Embarassing Things” thread !

Rest assured, once I know what the deal is, I will NOT use it against him. However, I DO have the right to have an opinion on a matter like this - Canthearya agreed it was a taboo: expect people to be opinianated about taboos, OK.

And I SURE AS HELL don’t want to get the gory details regarding said statement either. I just want to know whether it’s true or not.

And Byzantine: I am opinianated towards your situation too. Since you posted it here, I might as well respond to it: sex with your first cousins is WRONG in my book, no matter what the local applicable law says about it. Now you’ve explained yourself regarding sex with cousins, I am not gonna try to convince you my view on this is better or superiour to yours. It isn’t. It’s just a different point of view, as it would be in any discussion regarding morals and beliefs.

Now, if Lumpy explains himself too, the same thing will happen there. YES, I think it’s wrong. YES, I realise people will do stupid things they later regret. And thus: NO, I will not hold it against him, even if I find the thought in itself very disturbing.

As long as this post just proves Dutchies DO have morals despite of their reputation, that’s cool too :wink:

Now people. This was the very first time I had to defend myself in the Pit. How did I do ? Y’all still consider me a hypocrite ?

Cheers,

Coldfire

“You know how complex women are”

  • Neil Peart, Rush (1993)
#5

Coldfire: The thing that puzzles me a bit is that you seem to think that people have to explain themselves to you, that you would consider forgiveness provided that their answer is agreeable to you, that you seem to be some sort of arbiter supreme in these matters.

Am I reading you incorrectly?

#6

::deep breath::

Coldfire, you have no right to judge what anyone else does. If something in a thread is so offensive that you have to comment on it, comment once, and then shut up. No matter how bothered you are by a post, there’s no reason to harp on it the way you’ve been doing.

Posters here aren’t required to justify their actions to you, or to me, or to Cecil or the moderators or anyone else. If you don’t like what people are saying, turn the bloody channel.

#7

I was in love with a cousin of mine for a very long time. We did a lot of things and I’ve never been ashamed of them. I’ll always love him and don’t even care what other people think of that.

Today he is my most favorite person in the world, aside from my husband.

Coldfire, you say you aren’t judging, but the mere fact that you require an explanation from someone you don’t even know is judging.

trisha

#8

Hey, be opinionated toward my “situation” all you want. You can call me a “fucking whore with the morals of a garbage disposal” and I won’t give a slip load of dink!

There are only about ten people on this ENTIRE planet who’s opinions of me matter to me. YOU are not one of them. In that, I’m sure you feel the exact same way toward me. I’m not offended. Or hurt. Or surprised.

We can agree to disagree.

I don’t hold myself up as some kind of moral compass. I also don’t have to explain or justify myself to you or anyone but those ten people I mentioned above. In this thread, I wasn’t explaining or justifying myself to you or anyone else. I was sharing my own personal experience. That’s all.

The moon looks on many flowers, the flowers on but one moon.

#9

Just a few observations…
Lumpy did relate his experience in a public forum. Even though the topic was “most embarrassing things…”, he did choose to post. So to that extent, the incident was at least tacitly opened up for discussion.
As Byzantine quite appropriately noted, this is indeed getting into a dark area. Incest is a very strong taboo, no matter how various cultures may define it.
Since the topic was made public, IMO, Coldfire’s shock and suprise were an honest reaction. The types of sexual experimentation an individual may have tried, when described in a public forum, invite public comment.
The regret the individual may feel for the consequences, particularly of youthful mistakes, deserves some compassion. But I don’t think Coldfire deserves flaming for an honest reaction.
In fairness, his responses were models of restraint and good manners when balanced against some of the blaming and judgments that have resulted from far less controvesial topics.
The fact that Lumpy’s situation was very personal doesn’t distinguish it from other very personal and deeply felt issues on this board, like religion, art, body image, smoking, politics, etc.
Flaming Coldfire (hmmm, entrancing image, isn’t it?) seems a bit of an overreaction.
Just my opinion.
Veb
Veb

#10

Coldfire’s posts on this subject are different from the ordinary arguments around here; they don’t discuss the subject or putting forth an opinion. They ask-- almost demand-- more details about the situation, so Coldfire can decide whether or not to be disturbed by it. I don’t think that’s right, because it’s not his place to judge anyone else.

Does that clarify my position a little?

#11

Lumpy, you might want to direct your sister to the ‘What is forgiveness?’ thread in Great Debates.

#12

Clearly, some more explanation is needed. No problem, I can see why my motives in this matter were misjudged by some of you.

First off, I’d like to thank TVeblen for her eloquent post. She seems to be the only one who TRUELY understood what I meant. No disrespect towards the perceptiveness of the others in this thread intended, of course.

So here it goes: my final words on this issue, as far as I’m concerned.

  1. When I first read Lumpy’s statement, I was very doubtful of its sincerity. It could just as easy have been a joke. A very bad and cruel joke, IMHO: that’s why I felt the need to ask Lumpy to elaborate on the matter.
  2. Elaboration, in this sense, did NEVER mean to me that Lumpy had to submit all the details of this indeed very private matter for my and all the others eyes. I do not want to know these details, nor would they affect my opinion on the matter.
  3. There is, once more IMHO, a clear difference between being OPINIONATED on a matter, and being JUDGMENTAL towards the people involved. As I stated earlier: I do not think incest of any kind is right. However, if a person has commited incest in the past, or has tried to, but now clearly states he sincerely regrets doing so, it certainly isn’t OK for me to judge that person on it. It has already happened, it most likely turned that person into a better direction, leaving only the regret afterwards. This is, based on his final reaction, clearly what happened with Lumpy. Consequently: no judgment call towards Lumpy on my behalf, although the act of incest in itself is still wrong to me. It does not constitute that Lumpy is a bad person NOW, nor have I ever implied that he would be. I merely stated that I dislike the concept of incest. Now if that’s outrageous, flame me all you want.

So Lumpy, I do sincerely hope the experience was a learning one for you, and that it made you a better and more complete person - as do many experiences in our puberty. I want you to know (as I already stated in the original thread in MPSIMS) that I do NOT hold this against you, even if I disapprove of incest itself.

I hope this clarifies things enough. I was not offended by anyone who misunderstood my actions initially. My question to you all is: could you please take the abovementioned reasonings into considerations and check if you’re still offended by ME ?

As far as flaming me goes, this has been a very well-spoken and non-profanic thread. Possibly a Pit-Record: Least Profanities Per 1000 Words or something :wink:

And that’s just as well, after all, there’s realy no point in Flaming a Fire…

Cheers,

Coldfire

“You know how complex women are”

  • Neil Peart, Rush (1993)
#13

I was half-expecting to see a thread in the BBQ Pit titled “Lumpy is a sick goddamn pervert”.

Coldfire, I hold no grudge against you. You evidently wanted to know if I was just being a troll. Granted that for awhile there I felt like I’d put my foot in my mouth bringing up the whole subject. But I’m glad I was able to get it off my chest.

#14

My read on this: Lumpy is brave as hell for admiting that.

Coldfire acted in an outraged manner, but even then, he did it with maturity.

It’s not like I admited everything I do that’s embarrasing.

The really cool thing is you two guys represent the norm of the SDMB, rather than the exceptions. :smiley:

You say “cheesy” like that’s a BAD thing.

#15

Of course now I come off looking like a suck up. < sigh >

You say “cheesy” like that’s a BAD thing.

#16

And you see, I’ve always pronounced your name Sea Lemon 88, so you sucking up makes sense to me.

Get it? Lemons? Sucking?

Oh well… time to drink a couple beers.

#17

Ya want some lemon with those beers? I got them ** right HERE…** :wink:

You say “cheesy” like that’s a BAD thing.

#18

Lumpy,

Not to worry, there will be no such thread as far as I’m concerned. It took great courage for you to admit that, and even more to elaborate on it as requested by me. Not for gory details or anything, just for clarity.

Therefore, have no doubts as to the respect I have for you - especially now. It was there all along, and your explanation only reinforced it.

All the best to you mate.

Coldfire

“You know how complex women are”

  • Neil Peart, Rush (1993)