Coldfire

[Jodi]

MARIJEEK –

You’re goddamned right I said something that breathtakingly offensive. You can also bet every penny you have that it was totally intentional.

Okey-dokey.

Beyond that, my whole point was to show that I can say “Jodi sent me an email proclaiming his/her love for mint chocolate chip ice cream!” and try to use it to make a point.

Yes, I understood you were trying to make a point. I think the words you used to make it were inexcusable, and I am fully within my rights to let ALDEBARAN know that is my opinion. I have no independent knowledge of him as a poster, but I can assure you there is absolutely nothing he could have said or done that IMO would justify what you said. YMMV, but who cares? I’m not purporting to speak for you.

As for the rest, if something like that were to “make any Muslim shake the dust of this thread off his sandals”, too fucking bad. If you can’t take the heat, get out of the Pit. I’d say the same thing to him that I’d say to any other whining religious fanatic: Get a thicker skin and grow the fuck up.

And I say to him precisely what I have said to him: He should not make the mistake of thinking it is common for Americans, or even Westerns, to be as incredibly offensive to his religion as you have chosen to be. So I guess both our positions are clear, right?

This is just a gem. I’m sure all Americans and all Westerners appreciate you apologizing for them.

Please point out where I apologized for anyone. The only one who should feel any need to apologize is you, and I wouldn’t dream of doing that for you.

I was not insulting Islam, and I was not insulting Muslims. I was not insulting Arabs (since you decided to whip out the “Westerners” thing). I was insulting aldebaran.

How disingenuous of you. What you said was not about ALDEBARAN, it was about Allah. Frankly, I credit you with enough intelligence (God knows why) to think that you don’t really think that most Muslims would not find that comment a gross insult to their faith.

I’m not picking a fight with you, but I think what you said was hugely inappropriate and in amazingly bad taste. I would like ALDEBARAN – and every other Muslim who might read it, registered here or not – to understand that what you have said is something many of us would not dream of saying, under any circumstances.

And if you have a problem with that, tough.

[Jodi]

I apologize for the “God knows why” crack, in light of the fact I don’t know you at all. Sometimes I can’t corral the snarkiness completely. The rest of my post stands.

[Skywatcher]

Jodi, if you want to get to know Aldebaran’s posting style, see page 2 of the “biogted hatred” thread and the "US Chopper fires on wedding party"thread. The latter is a prime example of his habit taking an extreme anti-US position in arguments of his own invention.

[Jodi]

Well, he sounds a bit cracked to me, with the whole thing about not knowing who blew up the WTC, but, as I already said, there is nothing he could have said that IMO would justify what was said to him.

Maybe he ran over MARIJEEK’s dog? (“Fluffy? Fluffy?!? NOOOOooooo!!!”)

[Merijeek]

@Jodi

I’m not picking a fight with you, but I think what you said was hugely inappropriate and in amazingly bad taste. I would like ALDEBARAN – and every other Muslim who might read it, registered here or not – to understand that what you have said is something many of us would not dream of saying, under any circumstances.

And if you have a problem with that, tough.

Why would I have a problem? We understand each other completely.

I will also say, “Fuck Jesus Christ. Man, those nails must have hurt” when I feel like it.

I’ve now insulted four things in this thread, aldebaran, aldebaran’s mother, Allah, and Jesus Christ.

Two of those are fictional, one is dead (IIRC), and the other one has brought any and all abuse and scorn on himself.

I think Jesus, Allah, and a’s mom won’t be too offended.

-Joe

[The_Flying_Dutchman]

@Coldfire

I’m just calling you an unmannered jackass.

Hope that helps.

Well fuck, I know damn well you hold a low opinion of me. Goes way back to the year 2000. Whatever bug I put up your ass get over it you sanctimonious asshole. I just decided to give up trying to get along with you. Fuck, if you think I’m buying the truthfulness of your last post your full of shit. Period. !
fuck!
fuck!
fuck!
fuckfuck!

[Jodi]

As is blindingly obvious, you did not simply insult ALDEBARAN directly. Go crazy; I don’t know the guy. You insulted his faith in the most fundamental way. This is not only very likely insulting to him as a person, but offensive to him as a Muslim and very likely offensive to every other Muslim who might happen to see it. So while God might not care, a lot of people might. It is reasonable for me to point out that your willingness to be so offensive to his faith – or anyone’s faith – is not necessarily representative of something the rest of us would say. That’s the clarification I made, and I think it was entirely appropriate that it be made.

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

** Merijeek** , the Mods usually take a dim view of hate speech, & I’m betting you disappear a hellava lot sooner than Alde does.

And you know what? I respect him one hell of a lot more than I do you.

So go swallow a running chainsaw, hmmm? :wally

[Merijeek]

@Jodi

As is blindingly obvious, you did not simply insult ALDEBARAN directly. Go crazy; I don’t know the guy. You insulted his faith in the most fundamental way. This is not only very likely insulting to him as a person, but offensive to him as a Muslim and very likely offensive to every other Muslim who might happen to see it. So while God might not care, a lot of people might. It is reasonable for me to point out that your willingness to be so offensive to his faith – or anyone’s faith – is not necessarily representative of something the rest of us would say. That’s the clarification I made, and I think it was entirely appropriate that it be made.

Hey, I’m not disagreeing with you here, homey.

I chose to insult **aldebaran[/ b].

I could have insulted his intelligence, of course, but then I’d be persecuting stupid people.

I could have insulted him for being fat (assuming that I somehow knew he was), but them I’d get villified for using the “f-word”. And I don’t mean fuck.

I could have gone with a racial insult, of course, but that would have me villified, banned, and probably dragged through the street behind a VW Bus.

I chould have insulted his blah, his blahblah, or his blahblahblah. But then I’d be (feel free to pretend I’d typed another couple dozen paragraphs).

Did I manage to match the offensiveness of his hoping American posters would invade his country so he could kill them? From your perspective (and at least one other responder’s) I’ve apparently managed to trump that little motherfucker into oblivion.

Good for me.

Anyways, whether or not it’s hate speech is up to the mods. I’m sure enough people clicking that little button will make them respond one way or another.

If they think it is, that’s fine. Then I go bye bye. I’m not aiming my hate at Christians, Muslims or anything else. I’m aiming it at one particular Muslim.

How many free passes is that SOB going to get? If start screaming in every thread about how much I hate Belgians, and someone were to keep a tally, I’ll bet my ass would be gone so fast it would make my keyboard smoulder. …

[Skywatcher]

@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor

** Merijeek** , the Mods usually take a dim view of hate speech, & I’m betting you disappear a hellava lot sooner than Alde does.

I’d like to know why anti-US rhetoric isn’t considered hate speech. I mean, it must not be considered that what with Aldebaran being still able to post.

[dnooman]

Doesn’t shouting “You’re an asshole!” at each other begin to prove each other’s point?

[Creative_Munster]

I’m not particularly fond of Aldebaran either, Merijeek. But I agree with every word Jodi wrote.

[El_Kabong]

At times Aldebaran’s pushed my buttons as much as he has anyone else around here, but really, I’m begging you all to restrain the urge to feed it right back to him. Just lowers the whole tone, really.

I know this won’t get any traction around here, but in my view there is no use whatever in replying to an Aldebaran rant; favorably, in opposition, on topic or with complete nonsense. As I see it, his primary objective, and pretty much only interest in this board, is to witness for what he feels is unforgivably barbaric behavior by the current US administration against what he sees as entirely powerless and innocent people. Since the US adminstration was actually voted into power by the public (at least as he sees it), all Americans must share in the guilt and shame of the administrations barbaric behavior, and by God, he’s going to make sure they don’t forget that’s what they should be feeling.

In his view, anyone who might take exception to his constant speechifying about murdering US’ers obviously sympathies with soulless killers, and thus is unworthy of any civility or respect. Most important to note is that with only rare exceptions, he doesn’t really want to know anything about you, or you anything at all about him, except how much he despises the lot of you.

He will most likely back off temporarily as he knows he’s on seriously thin ice at the moment, but at some point he will be unable to restrain himself from poking other posters with his exquisitely sharpened little stick, and he’ll be back with the same old tired insults and multi-page, bandwidth-clogging screeds. Again, I know it’ll be almost impossible to hold back, but if you keep trying to feed it right back to him you’re accomplishing nothing except giving him additional chances to tell you just how much he loathes you. If you find that entertaining by all means go for it, but Christ Almighty, his schtick is getting old.

[milroyj]

@Jeff Olsen

I’d like to know why anti-US rhetoric isn’t considered hate speech. I mean, it must not be considered that what with Aldebaran being still able to post.

That does seem a little odd, doesn’t it? A silly joke in the Pit about someone speaking French gets one called a “contemptible asshole”, but Alde’s often rabid anti-Americanism, in Great Debates, is given a pass.

[andros]

There, there, milroyj. You can be a contemptible asshole, too.

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

@Jeff Olsen

I’d like to know why anti-US rhetoric isn’t considered hate speech. I mean, it must not be considered that what with Aldebaran being still able to post.

Because “American” isn’t a religious or ethnic group. So, it’s political.

[Mehitabel]

Well, at least it’s a nationality. And how many years have to go by before we DO become an ethnicity? By that reckoning there’s no such thing as an Eritrean or East Timorese either, hmmm?

Look, the appearance of the OP usually guarantees a hijack of the thread, at least for a while. Especially as people not familiar with his tricks blink in surprise and fruitlessly batter their heads against his obstinance as they try to reason with this person. Let him go.

[Merijeek]

@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor

Because “American” isn’t a religious or ethnic group. So, it’s political.

That’s a pretty damned thing argument.

I always figured that the reason racist/ethnic/religious insults, persecution, and the like were so bad was because you’re aiming those things at a group because the members have no choice about their membership in that group.

Hating someone for being a member of, say, the KKK is acceptable because they don’t have to be a member of that group. I’ve known people who were involved in such groups and, having actually met and forced to deal with a group they’re supposed to hate realize that, hey, them goddamn fags are actually PEOPLE.

However, hating someone for being a Catholic isn’t acceptable, because people don’t have a choice about such a thing*. Same thing for someone’s nation or origin, ethnic descent, or the like.

Here’s a thought experiment for everyone.

Let’s say an SDMB poster were to have something against Germans. I’m talking about people who are German, from Germany, and as the majority of them do, live in Germany. All sorts of stuff about their funny green panthose, their tendancy to invade France, and the odd fact that they have a remarkable number of buildings under 60 years old. Since they’re not an Ethnic group (according to Bosda, it would be just fine.

Then take for example someone like me. I’m 100% German descent. Since that would be my ethnicity (unless we want to go with just plain “honkey”), is it now not okay to insult me about leiderhosen, France, and all those buildings?
-Joe
*Yes, I know people can renounce one religion and join another, but that’s certainly a rarity. Besides, to a lot of people, if you’re Catholic when you’re raised, you’re Catholic for life. Same goes for being, say, an American citizen or a Canadian citizen.

[Merijeek]

@Merijeek

That’s a pretty damned thing argument.

Of course, anyone who’s not a damned dirty (fill in group of your choice here) knows that was supposed to be “thin” rather than “thing”.

-Joe, not a professional editor

[Jackmannii]

@Merijeek

Then take for example someone like me. I’m 100% German descent. Since that would be my ethnicity (unless we want to go with just plain “honkey”), is it now not okay to insult me about leiderhosen, France, and all those buildings?

Interestingly, we once had a Bavarian poster who was into spirited America-bashing (among other things, he found it contemptible that any American would display their nation’s flag, regardless of how they felt about current government policy) and stereotypical comments about cowboys, etc.
I returned the favor with some gibes about lederhosen and yodeling. Oddly enough, he was not amused.

But I promise not to make any urban renewal jokes.

Invading France every once in awhile might actually be a good thing…