Colorless Mafia

[Red_Skeezix]

@Freudian_Slit

I’m still thinking about it. But it’s such a cliche. Person is about to die, they pull out a power role, and most of the time they’re lying. What are the odds we actually are about to lynch the vig?

I disagree with your assessment that most of the time they are lying. The only people who lie on the threat of lynch IME are scum and PFK. If he’s scum or SK, he’ll die for it, either the vig will get him eventually or the vig will get killed and we’ll know he’s lying and we’ll lynch him. If he actually is the vig, he probably will be roleblocked or killed by scum.

This effectively makes the problem between pede, scum/SK, and a possible vig (if he’s lying). IMO, Town should not waste a lynch on him at this point. The straight odds are low that he’s telling the truth (I figure 1 of 6), but why should town bother to lynch him? I would even go as far to say that the cop shouldn’t even waste an investigation on him (due to godfather).

Again IMO, his claim makes him not town’s problem until someone is forced to counter-claim him or the real vig ends up dead and confirmed. Then, it is town’s duty to lynch his ass since he will be undeniably not town.

[Zeriel]

NETA: I was thinking of pulling my vote off you, but naw, it feels good where it is.

Remember, Freudian, this is an open setup. We have a LOT of tools to deal with false claims without having to lynch them immediately, which means we have a plethora of reasons to generally trust claims until proven otherwise.

[Red_Skeezix]

@Red_Skeezix

Again IMO, his claim makes him not town’s problem until someone is forced to counter-claim him or the real vig ends up dead and confirmed. Then, it is town’s duty to lynch his ass since he will be undeniably not town.

NETA: My words are not quite what I meant: in the case that someone counter-claims him, we will have to evaluate the claims and then may end up lynching both.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Unvote pede.

Let’s see what happens next. And we pick on you in the playground because we like you, pede

Hopefully some votes will get us some signs of life.

Vote Ichini

[GuiriEnEspana]

Unvote Pedescribe

For now I’d like to see what the rest of Town thinks we should do.

It’s funny that we just had a big discussion on what we should do in the event of a Vig claim…

If Pedescribe is the real Vig and there’s no counterclaim, the Doc will probably protect him and scum will role-block him so he’s basically VT at the moment, right?

If he’s not the real Vig, without a counter-claim, the Doc will likely still protect him so he can’t be “dealt with”" by the SK, scum or the real Vig - so he’s basically safe till the real vig flips.

If he’s not the real Vig and there is a counter-claim, the Doc will have to decide which of the two claimants is townier, protect that person who, if the true Vig, will probably be roleblocked, while the less convincing claimant either gets lynched or NK’d by the SK.

If I’m looking at this correctly, it all boils down to whether our Doc buys Pedescribe’s claim and is willing to protect him or let the scum, SK or real Vig deal with him in their own way.

FWIW, I don’t think his play style has been consistent with a Townie protecting a very important power role and I’m not sure what to make of the fact the he was the first to give “advice” to the Vig (#82). Isn’t that exactly what you’re NOT supposed to do?

[USCDiver]

@Freudian_Slit

I’m still thinking about it. But it’s such a cliche. Person is about to die, they pull out a power role, and most of the time they’re lying. What are the odds we actually are about to lynch the vig?

Can you point me towards an open setup game where most of the role claims were lying?
vote Freudian

[special_ed]

[quote=“special_ed, post:375, topic:519729”]

Vote Count with about 13 hours and 19 minutes to go
12 Votes required to start Countdown.

(peak vote in Parentheses)

4 Votes
*Freduian Slit (3 #378) Zeriel (230), Drain Bead (298), Red Skeezix (378), USCDiver (386)

3 Votes
Pedescribe (6 #330) ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (86 384), Tom Scud (282 334), Freudian Slit (288), peekercpa (308), Mental Guy (318 377), GuiriEnEspaña (330 385), Mahaloth (370)

2 Votes

peekercpa (2 #326) pedescribe (307), DiggitCamara (326)
Rin Twisted (2 #358) storyteller0910 (290) ToeJam (358)

1 Vote
amrussell (2 #218) Pedescribe (208 235), Rin Twisted (218), ToeJam (272 320)
Mahaloth (1 #135) peekercpa (135 308) Tom Scud (334)
Ichini Sanshigo (1 #384) ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (384)

0 Votes
ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (1 #315) Red Skeezix (315 378)
*Lynch Leader

Not Voting: Nanook, Ichini Sanshigo, MHaye, amrussel, Mental Guy, GuiriEnEspaña

[GuiriEnEspana]

@Freudian_Slit

I never said it was one of my first games. I’ve played about four or five games in the past. So more than some, fewer than others. I don’t always play this way, no, but I haven’t ever played with peeker for example, and I’ve never really been called out for, IMHO, stuff that’s fairly innocuous. Plus, coupled with a lot of off board crap I"ve been dealing with–that’s basically why I was acting as I did.

/Underlining mine for emphasis.

@ Freudian, while you did disappear in Day 2, you were in Screamers with Peeker, weren’t you? I remember you two exchanged greetings in Bulgarian.

[peekercpa]

@pedescribe

:kneads brow:

Every single game, it seems like! Have I not been in hot water day one?! Ever?!

Whatever. Since there’s only, like, a day left in the Day, I’m coming out now.

I’m the vigilante.

well i can only suspect some things but at least in this game i know with 100 percent certainly that this is a lie.

now i know that there was some discussion about what do with a false claiming vig. and to be honest with you i can see both points. having said that since i know without a doubt that ped is scum or sk lynching anyone else is not the percentage play.

lynch ped, he is not the vig.

[peekercpa]

oh, and for those that accuse me of being indirect let me be very clear.

i am the vig.

[peekercpa]

and i want to get this out there so we still have a little time to talk about some other folks in a strategy setting before we go to Night.

[peekercpa]

@Red_Skeezix

Thats a false dichotomy if i’ve ever seen one.

Also, Cookies, you threw out that first vote what I consider to be quite early. Justification for the vote: Other votes have been broader and rested on less suspicion.

Since then you’ve sat back and relaxed and thrown out a few innocuous comments as town has been gutting each other all day. It’s exactly the kind of thing scum strives for on day 1. A whole lot of chaos that’s fallout only lands on townies.

[COLOR"Blue"]vote ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies[COLOR]

@Red_Skeezix

<snipped/underlined for emphasis>

WHAT?!?! You accuse peeker of deliberately misquoting you, then in the same post commit the same??? I mean I don’t agree with Guiri’s reasons, but you can’t just leave them out of a quote, and then accuse the poster of laziness.

In other news, I still think Cookies is pretty scummy, and I don’t think anyone suggested that I not be scrutinized. :dubious: Where did that notion enter your head?

<bleached>

<bolding mine>

these two posts bother me. in the first one skeez seems to really be stretching for a reason for his vote. also, why so sure that what is going on is town on town disagreement or “gutting”. that sure smacks of knowing something.

also, in the second post he kind of zings ped but not enough to justify a vote but merely reiterates his suspicion of cookies. sure smells like a nice way to establish some cred without actually pushing a teamie closer to lynch.

[Tom_Scud]

@peekercpa

oh, and for those that accuse me of being indirect let me be very clear.

i am the vig.

unvote Mahaloth
vote pedescribe

I see no reason why a scum peeker would make such a claim.

[Stanislaus]

OK, here are the possibilities:

1. Pedescribe is the vig; peekercpa is lying

I can’t think of any reason why this would be true. The only goal peeker can have for making his claim is to get pedescribe killed one way or another: if pedescribe flipped vig, we’d insta-lynch peeker, no question.

2. Pedescribe is scum/SK; peekercpa is lying

This would be an exceptionally bold gambit to win townie-cred when pedescribe flips **except **that the real vig would still be out there, and would off peeker. So this is also highly unlikely. (Or peeker’s reading this right now thinking “Damn, I knew there was something I forgot.”)

3. Pedescribe is scum/SK; peekercpa is the vig

This by elimination is the most likely possibility. The good news is that we get lynch a non-town. The bad news is that our vig is at best going to be continually role-blocked at least until the scum flush another power-role. That’s not the worst thing in the world - the chances that given freedom to act he’d have hit a scum were always low, and this way he get’s a definite kill.

vote pedescribe

[Drain_Bead]

So we know either peeker or pedescribe is lying. And it seems like it would be pointless for peeker to counterclaim right now, as he’s not getting any major heat, and would surely end up dead toMorrow if he’s lying. So between the two, doubtless the liar is pedescribe. So pedescribe is either Scum or the SK. Either way, he should die toDay–no need to potentially lynch a Townie and have to set up some convoluted combination of roleblocking and vigging toNight, when we have a Scum or PFK in our sights.

unvote Freudian
vote pedescribe

This is not to say that I am not still VERY suspicious of Freudian, especially given how she reacted after pedescribe’s claim. I’m not sure how many open setup games Freudian has played in–maybe she’s used to the mechanics of a closed setup and is having trouble wrapping her mind around the fact that we all have absolute knowledge of all roles in the game. But it doesn’t seem hard to refer to post 67 as the game’s Bible and realize that if pedescribe was not the Vig, a counterclaim or a Night vigging was surely coming.

[Drain_Bead]

That second sentence should read “And it seems like it would be pointless for peeker to counterclaim right now as Scum/SK…”

[MentalGuy]

I have to agree with everyone else, I think it would be pointless for peeker to be lying right now, so

Vote pedescribe

I was actually planning on voting for Freudian for the reasons Red and USCDiver were but it looks as if we have definitely caught a scum or the SK.

[USCDiver]

WTF peeker!

**unvote Freudian

vote pedescribe
**

[GuiriEnEspana]

Right, that’s decided then.

Vote Pedescribe

The claim doesn’t match his play and now Peeker’s counter-claimed, I can add these reasons to my previous ones and place a definitive vote.

[MHaye]

Doing a post-lunch catchup before I head off and read some job adverts to see a claim-and-counterclaim scenario.

Clearly one of them is lying, as illustrated by the philosopher Mark Knopfler.

Two men say they’re Jesus
One of them must be wrong.
[right]Dire Straits, Industrial Disease[/right]

Pede claimed Vig when in the lead; this could be the act of a desperate scum, but to be honest smells more like that of a serial killer to me. The SK needs to stay alive at all costs; a scum Pedescribe could hope to win even if he’s lynched Day 1.

Given some of the discussion upthread, Pede might have hoped that the lynch settled on a VT, and then the Doc protect him in the absence of anyone else, or that the true Vig and scum leave him alone thinking that the Doc might be protecting him. (I know I’ve seen - and followed, in games when I have been scum - that argument in the past.)

Assuming for the moment that Peeker is not Town, what motive might he have for counterclaiming? Honestly? Peeker can’t positively know what Pede is, so he’s risking Pede flipping Town Vig, which would lead to a guaranteed Peeker lynch Tomorrow, instead of a Day where Peeker might be the lynch candidate. Why make a bad uncertain thing certain when you don’t have to?

But there is another possibility.

Pedescribe has, in the past, advocated Townspeople lying. He has even practiced actuive deceit (by which I mean he has, as a Town-aligned player, made false statements knowing that they were false and with the intention to mislead. Most recently he tried it on in Conspiracy 3; he was one particular investigative role but claimed to be another (briefly) in order to pull the wool over the eyes of a specific anti-Town faction, who had already checked him out and thus knew he was probably lying. His biggest lie was that he repeatedly claimed that there were four Masons in Evil Dead.

It’s quite possible, then, that Pede is simply a vanilla Town trying to get out of a lynch. In which case, his lie has exposed the Vig to public scrutiny.

In summary, unless Pede is actually the town Vig he’s the right lynch candidate, and if he is the town Vig we’ve got a scum (or possibly SK) lined up for tomorrow. Additionally, pedescribes past play reduces his credibility with this claim.

Vote Pedescribe.