All I can say to this is Amen. Particularly the get over yourself part of it - not everyone has the exact same standards about the exact same things so quit trying to force yours (generic you) onto everyone else.
Kathy
All I can say to this is Amen. Particularly the get over yourself part of it - not everyone has the exact same standards about the exact same things so quit trying to force yours (generic you) onto everyone else.
Kathy
I think that’s what I’ve been missing; just letting it go doesn’t cover it, and takes too much effort from me (I’m wearing myself out consciously letting go of a hundred things every day); I need to find a way to become emotionally immune to being affected by the abundant assholes of the world.
I’m sure there’s at least *one *thing that other people allow you to do that drives them nuts. If not, please call 1-800-Vatican to begin the canonization process.
See, “letting it go” is how I STOP expending energy over it. If it takes energy to do, you’re not letting it go - you’re seething or resenting or justifying or something else. I don’t know if anyone can teach you *how *to let it go, but it’s not just a phrase. Letting it go is energy conserving, not energy draining.
I also really like Charger’s sublimation idea, and I admit to doing it myself as well. If you can’t let go of that negative energy, then transform it into good energy instead. Use it to be a superhero! Give yourself a pat on the back for being a great person, instead of spending your time contemplating how much everyone else sucks.
Several people have said “it’s not your job to teach them” or that expecting other people to live up to our high standards is unrealistic. But I’m on the “SOMEONE has to do it” side of this. I can overlook occasional and small things very easily, but I do not think that expecting other people to routinely pick up after themselves is an unrealistically high expectation. Is it petty and small? Maybe, but I don’t think it’s remotely fair to expect people to “just deal with” consistently inconsiderate people.
In the case of the left-in-the-sink office dishes (assuming I know FOR SURE that it’s the same person all the time who leaves them) I would wash them once. Second time, I would tell the person, “Hey, rinse out your dishes, will ya?” Third time - yeah, I would escalate. I’d pile the dishes on his office chair. Yes, you have the right to be an inconsiderate ass, but there’s no reason other people should be reaping the consequences of your actions.
You just don’t get to see what the other people are doing to adapt to yours.
I don’t think anyone’s saying you shouldn’t have a private discussion with someone when you’re not heated. Certainly, that’s the approach I’d endorse, especially if we’re talking about officemates or roommates or other people with whom you have an ongoing relationship. “Let it go” doesn’t mean be a doormat or enable bad behavior in the long run, but it does mean let go of the emotional torment in the moment.
Wash the dishes if you need the dishes. Then go have a calm conversation with the dish leaver and let them know that, in the long run, leaving dishes doesn’t work for you and can the two of you figure out a solution together. Is it okay if he leaves a dish dirty until the end of the day, or does it need to be tended to before his break is over? Do you need to consider getting a dishwasher? Does he want to supply his own disposable dishes instead of using washable ones? Working WITH someone to find a solution is just more likely to be productive than seething or shouting, IME.
If I was one of the OP’s neighbors, I’d ask the offenders if there was a reason their trash was becoming a problem, and help them work out what to do about it. Do they need another recycle bin? A bungee cord to secure their lid? If they’re working all day, perhaps they don’t even know there IS a problem. I’d want to work with the people directly involved before calling my mommy - I mean, city hall - to deal with what might be solved with a $1.99 worth of twine and 10 minutes of time.
I sort of see it as an issue of ego.
Judging others to be ‘assholes’ is just a thinly disguised way of saying, ‘I’m better than you’. They are not assholes they are just people. And people are flawed. They sometimes do unthinking things. Sometimes they are worried about their job and don’t notice how they parked, sometimes they are worried about their dying granny and don’t notice the paper jam in the machine.
And, of course, we are all just people. We all do unthinking things. Yes, even you.
Perhaps you can’t see the ways in which you are flawed. The very definition of ‘unthinking’ means the annoying things you do are things that you don’t even give a thought to. Just like the person who parks badly, or leaves dishes in the sink.
And trying to ‘teach’ other people to conform to your standards for behaviour falls into the same category for me. The mommy / child relationship is very much about ego, (unless, of course, you are indeed the mommy and it’s your child). When you fall into the construct of ‘teaching’ a grown adult how to behave, it’s all about thinking you know better and being the Mommy. Which goes right back to your ego and having to feel superior.
And I certainly agree with Whynot about trying to make a effort to resolve issues. It’s been done. But these are largely young people living in rental accommodations. Letter after letter to the landlord isn’t going to change anything. They are young people who are just learning to live in the world. I don’t know about you, but I myself was young once. And it took me time to learn that it was easier to just get it right before you put it on the curb, than to clean up the resulting mess. My point was at some point you have to recognize that the landlord cannot possibly manage all the tenants garbage for them, it ain’t going to happen. That city hall can’t really say who’s garbage it is once it’s in the street. That an endless stream of complaints only frays relationships and costs the complainers, and the garbage is still in the street!
I find the whole, ‘Well I can do it so they should do it’, argument very tiring. We get it, you’re just wonderful, yes, you should definitely be able to tell everyone else how to do things.
No one is arguing that it’s not annoying, or that they shouldn’t know better, that’s all true. We’re talking about our chosen responses to it. And it is a choice.
(Having invoked the ‘ego’ word, I fully expect a shitstorm of protest. Let me say in advance, ‘Sorry if I hit on your last nerve’. I must admit this discussion has been extremely civil for the bbq pit. On reflection, had I not said, "For Christ’s sake SHUT UP!’ in my OP it probably would have gone in IMHO quite well. I was thinking people would be angrier and more outspoken against my view, quite honestly. Even those who don’t quite see it, seem terrible civil. Don’t you love this community?)
Not sure true emotional immunity is possible, but maybe try finding something else positive to pay attention to instead? (not meant snarkily, hope it doesn’t read that way) Psych teaching says that when you’re trying to stop doing bad thing x, you need to find something else to do (at least neutral, preferably good) to replace it with. I suspect this applies to what one thinks as much as it applies to what one does.
True enough. But I know I don’t leave a trail like Hansel and Gretel at work.
I am not one to bitch about this kind of stuff in RL, and I am lucky enough to now work with a group of people who are responsible about their things. Thank God. I came from a nursing unit where stuff like this was bitched and bitched about–one shift played off another–it was hellish to work in. All the griping is pointless in that it doesn’t change anything.
But the question remains and it’s as old as the hills: the evil (ok, hyperbole) do seem to flourish like the green bay tree. I, for one, am tired of it. There will always be freeloaders such as those who don’t clean up or offer to help. And I will say that those people just weren’t raised right. So, if that makes me have an “ego”, so be it.
elbows: While I also appreciate the civility shown here in the Pit in this thread, I should point out that judging other’s judgement is in itself a judgement. I don’t quite buy the kumbaya I’m hearing. Sure we’re all flawed–and for some, that flaw is being consistently irresponsible about contributing to a group effort. I agree that we all can (and do) behave selfishly or thoughtlessly at times. The key is “at times”. I am complaining about people who make a habit of not cleaning up after themselves, leave their garbage cans out for days, whatever. I see nothing wrong with a bit of peer pressure in these cases. I see a lot wrong with just letting them continue to not do their share. I agree that complaining about it and not taking steps is counterproductive and a time-waster (as well as an energy suck), but I cannot see doing nothing to correct it.
I’m not up at night about any of this, but if it’s affecting the work environment, it needs to be addressed. Doing so requires basic assertiveness skills and common courtesy. If the dickery continues, it can and should be brought to the manager’s or boss’s attention.
“judging other’s judgment is, in itself, a judgment”
Point taken. And it’s also true that I am complaining about people who constantly complain.
The irony it burns.
But really, I just wanted to delineate the point I was trying to make. I wasn’t really trying to judge anyone as much as be clear about my position, and my thoughts on it. Actually more about the opposing position I just can’t relate to, I suppose.
I guess the sticking point, for me, is that these are people who I otherwise judge to be quite intelligent. My neighbour is an entomologist and her husband (on the panty twisted team) is a university professor in biology. I respect them on so many levels and yet, they choose to spend an enormous amount of time and energy getting bent out of shape over something that would take all of 5 mins to pick up. It dumbfounds me, truly.
Alas, it will just be one more of the many things in the world that give me pause and drive my curiosity to understand.
I really do thank you all for your contributions. I have found this a very lively and elucidating discussion. I am reassured to know that others feel as I do. And have learned much from those who see it differently than myself.
Oh, and I’ll apologize for the Kumbaya-ishness while I’m at it.
Kumbaya, motherfucker!
I think this is also something I am missing - it’s not that I don’t get what people are saying here; I am just having a really hard time actually doing it in the real world, in spite of all the intellectual realization that my responses are the only thing I can truly control.
Whynot I wanted to add that I really enjoyed your viewpoint. I don’t really agree with the sarcastic and nasty part but I love the ‘poor them’ attitude.
Because that’s exactly how I need to understand them. They can’t see what it’s doing to them as people to get so caught up in something so easily dealt with. They can’t see how easy the solution really is, though it’s right before them. Poor them, indeed. (Sincerely, no sarcasm, no snark.)
Thanks for that, I’m going to remember it in future.
Bwah! That is great.
I don’t understand your neighbor’s quest to solve the garbage can dilemma, either. If I were to hazard a psycho-babble guess, it’d be that this “issue” is substituting for something else in her life that she doesn’t want to face.
I do work with an aide who gets all caught up in he said she said but he didn’t do or she’d didn’t remember stuff and it’s hell to listen to. Sometimes I want to smack her.
kumbaya motherfucker, indeed!
featherlou–are you campaigning about neighborhood garbage cans and such? Or are you just fed up with being the one who cleans up the staff break room? To me, the situations are worlds apart. If your on a campaign to change your neighbors, give up now (or move!). If it’s the latter, you have all my sympathy…
Well, if it’s any help at all, I can tell you what I do to let things go: when I realize that I need to let go of whatever negative thoughts/emotions I’m experiencing, I take a deep breath, consciously relax my entire body on the exhale (I tend to tense up when upset, as most people probably do, I imagine), tell myself that it isn’t a big deal and not my concern (basically, the intellectual realization part), focus on feeling calm and relaxed, and change the topic of my thoughts.
It’s not uncommon for me to have to repeat this frequently when I’m especially upset. I just keep trying until it sticks or if I just can’t let it go, even after several minutes, that’s a pretty good sign that I need to address it or the person causing it specifically. Generally, all that’s required for me to feel better in that case is to calmly confront the person causing the problem (or a friend if there isn’t anyone to confront about it or if confronting them would only make the situation worse for me).
I’m not quite sure where I fall in this discussion. I think I pick up my share of loose trash and return more than my shooping carts. I don’t cook at the office so I blithely ignore whatever may be growing in the breakroom sink or fridge. But featherlou’s initial post really reflected a lot of what I find myself feeling all of the time. And I find elbows’ repeated “people will be people” mantra somewhat jarring.
I think what you are describing is people being inconsiderate assholes. I have no idea what percentage of people are assholes - I suspect it is really a minority and they simply have an outsize effect on the rest of folk. Or else the majority of people are assholes but only in a limited respect, and it is the cumulated effect of all of these small assholish tendencies that seems so omnipresent.
I really don’t care too much for most of my fellow men one way or the other. But having said that, I’d really prefer that I not unthinkingly cause someone else distress. And if I realize I did something that distressed someone - say I get honked at while driving carelessly - I feel badly. I don’t stop myself from doing much of anything out of concern for my fellow man, but it takes nothing to walk in a relatively straight line down the sidewalk, not stop abruptly, keep my cart to the side of the store aisles, signal before turning, etc. ad infinitum.
What amazes me is that so many assholes seem to act as tho it is everyone else who ought to put up with their shit. Very recent example, in the supermarket parking lot with my daughter, in a marked crosswalk, some woman on the cellphone in a SUV (don’t you love cliches-in-real-life!) nearly hits my kid. When I turned and looked at her - didn’t say anything, but turning to see what just almost happened was my natural reaction. I don’t think I even had time to put a pissed off look on my face. She flipped me off!
This bitch was “just being a person?” Fuck that shit!
Having said all of that, I can’t think of any specific things that I get too worked up about. Instead, since I expect so many people of being assholes, it neither surprises nor terribly bothers me when I encounter it. I am pretty adept at ignoring and putting up with quite a bit.
If she had merely been distracted and done a very stupid, stupid thing behind the wheel, then she might have been merely human and worthy of forgiveness. If she’s not yielding right of way in a crosswalk (assuming you and your daughter had right of way) and talking on a cell phone, which is both illegal (in my city) and well-publicized as dangerous, she’s a danger, and you should take her to task or call the police. If she flips you off, *then *she’s an asshole. That’s not a slip up or carelessness, that’s deliberate action intended to provoke, and not at all the sort of thing I was talking about.
It’s still up to you whether or not you rise to her bait, but yeah, I’m with you, she’s an asshole whether you react or not.
I think it’s probably a little of both - I would love it if everyone acted responsibly in parking lots, and I would also love it if everyone who uses the photocopier bothered to put paper in it. I know there is nothing that can be done about everyone ignoring common usage laws in parking lots, and I’ve given up on hoping that people will come to realize that there are no magical photocopier fairies that fill it up every day. Still, these people get an easier road in life because of my efforts (I too would like to print endlessly and never put paper in, but I don’t get to do that), and I am having a hard time figuring out why their lives should be easier and why mine should be harder. And saying, “Let it go” doesn’t explain it, either. It deals with the symptoms, but doesn’t address the disease.
I hear you. But I also think that what you are feeling is completely normal–it’s natural to resent having to not only pull your own weight, but also someone else’s time after time. Short of confrontation (at the office or similar; I’d let the cell phone/SUV bitch go–pedestrian vs SUV, SUV wins), some type of coping mechanism must be arrived at. Perhaps you need to hang/work around a higher class of people–meaning a more mature, responsible sort. If not, I do take solace in thinking their mama didn’t raise them right. It may not be all golden new age acceptance, but it keeps me out of jail.
Dinsdale-you said it very well.
Some days I think my coping mechanism is going to be a compound with a very high wall in the mountains.