Dinsdale, I want you to know that if someone almost mowed down my child, at a crosswalk, while talking on their cell phone, then flipped me the bird, I’d be pretty damn hot about it. Rest assured.
That’s not really what I was talking about. I was talking about the small and petty things we let get to us when there’s a solution right in front of us. Like doing a few dishes, picking up some garbage, returning a grocery cart. Small solutions to what are, in reality, small problems. Solutions that take less time and much less energy than harping endlessly, escalating, confronting or being passive aggressive.
I just know that no matter how many people around me leave their carts in the lot or their dishes in the sink I won’t ever take on those ways. Why? Because it’s not who I am and it never will be.
When I go one step further and say, “Well, I put my cart away so you should to”, I’ve sort of crossed a line, even if I believe you should and it would make for a better world. I don’t have the right to tell you what to do, you’re an adult.
There is no teacher keeping track anymore. If you contribute more to the group than the person beside you, recognize it’s because of who you are, and has no real bearing on the others in the group. No one is obligated to match your contribution. Thinking everyone else should match your contribution, rise to your standard of behaviour, (no matter how reasonable or self evident it seems to you), is overlooking the fact that you do what you do because of who you are not so others will match your contribution. It seems an important distinction to me.
All that said, I realized today, much to my chagrin, that in starting this thread I sort of shot myself in the foot. I will be hard pressed now to use this board as an outlet when foolish, petty things do set me off. What the hell was I thinking?
No, you aren’t wrong about this thread and your ideas; it’s just the execution that’s stumping me. Some things shouldn’t be tolerated, and sometimes you do have to tell people to pull up their socks, and sometimes you just have to let it go; it isn’t always easy to figure out which is which.
Doesn’t that kind of go against the grain of civic duty, though? Sure, you may be willing to pick up another person’s trash or clean their dishes, but how does that justify recommending other people to do the same as an overall solution?
We grow up with a pretty solid mantra. If there’s a problem, an assertive person addresses the problem appropriately. Married with that is the assumption that contact with the proper authorities is the appropriate course of action. In the case of many of these examples, companies and governments usually have clear policies regarding these situations which should be enforced.
Most people probably get riled up because of the lack of reciprocity in these kinds of situations. You see a person getting away with breaking one of our sacred social contracts, but there’s no guiding hand or relief in sight. Instinctually, perhaps, the urge is to correct that breaking of the contract personally.
Personally, I’m also of the opinion that a slack attitude towards slackers only results in more slack attitudes and more slackers. Unless you’re willing to step up to the plate, nothing is going to change. Is change important? For such little things? I think so. You may not, but that certainly doesn’t make you some kind of hippy zen god.
For the record, I do agree that you should let it go emotionally, but I definitely disagree with the part about babying the party in question beyond the first warning or two. Frankly, I sometimes hang out with some rather sharky people, and they would most definitely see people with this flower-power attitude as suckers and doormats.
You’re asking to be taken advantage of. Plus, you’re potentially not helping the person who is misbehaving. You guys may have said that it’s not our job to teach others, but I think that’s malarkey. People are learning things all the time about themselves, and they depend on input from other people for that. The person in the office who is being a slob? Warn them that such conduct isn’t going to get them far in your business.
With that in mind, it seems a little contradictory to say:
Bolding for emphasis. Anyone who doesn’t think that society has lessons to teach us is fooling themselves into thinking their “wisdom” is immaculately conceived.
I don’t really mean this to sound as snarky as it does, but I can’t think of any other way to word it.
To me it seems the majority of people have to work at being pleasant and considerate, which leads me to believe that our default is set at unpleasant and inconsiderate. If I have to make a conscious choice to not be a slovenly asshole, then of course I’m going to stumble every once in awhile. One hopes it really comes down to “unthinking” and not a purposeful exercise of maliciousness.
I am currently house-hunting, and am having a lot of trouble locating a free-standing house that meets my price and location requirements. Thus, I am biting the bullet and considering buying a condo or townhouse. One group of places I am considering would require me to be part of a homeowner’s association. I am not looking forward to this alternative because of all the horror stories I have heard about how some of them are run by micro-managing tin-plated dictators with delusions of godhood. (Although I do like the idea of not having to do my own front lawnwork, which seems to be included in the monthly fee). I tend to be rather casual about some things, particularly when I’m in one of my depressive moods, and I don’t need people showing up on my doorstep screaming at me because I didn’t take in my empty trash containers on time.
There is certainly a distinction to be made between being a doormat and letting things go.
I suppose I’m just more interested in results, when it comes to the little things. I watch my neighbour complain and call city hall, repeatedly over something that would take a few moments to correct. And it surprises me that they’d rather exert that energy than just go and pick up the garbage. Because, in the end, for all their efforts the garbage is still in the street.
I don’t believe I ever claimed to be ‘some kind of hippy zen God’. No one claimed you shouldn’t speak up about the dishes in the sink, just that to go on endlessly complaining about it, to escalate, become passive aggressive or let it upset you is a waste of your energy. If it bothers you as much as you claim, take 5 mins and do the dishes. In my opinion you have a lot better chance of changing someones behaviour this way than by winging and complaining non stop.
I am only being taken advantage of if I think doing the dishes or moving the shopping cart is going to garner me respect, admiration, or accolades. I don’t. I do it because it’s who I am, not because of who they’re not.
Wisdom is not immaculately conceived, it comes to us in our own time. Adults don’t much like being told how to live by other adults, no matter how righteous or correct they might be. People learn a lot more by example than by being chastised like children, in my experience.
I believe that people who think they have the right to direct other adults in how to live their lives are in for some life lessons of their own. And they are destined to live with disappointment and conflict, which isn’t how I’d want to live. Disappointment because there will always be carts in the parking lot, conflict because there will always be someone who needs their instruction, in their eyes. But for unknown reasons resents being treated like a child.
That snark you don’t mean but can’t think of any other way to express yourself, I would posit is the direct result of resentment you feel because no one is taking your directions, damn it. Why can’t they see that you know best and just do as you say?
I mentioned the parking lot only because it was so recent and extreme, that it was in my mind. But it did not impress me as qualitatively different from people just not paying attention in general because they are on their cellphones, whether they are driving, blocking the grocery aisle, or in line in front of me and not participating in their transaction. Or other forms of rudeness and entitlement - talking in the theater, driving rudely, littering, loud stereos, whatever.
I may be remembering the minority of situations, but this sort of encounter somehow affects me deeply. Say someone is blocking a grocery aisle - maybe talking on the phone, or simply taking up the entire aisle while choosing a product. I don’t yell at them “move your damn cart.” Instead, I say something like “Excuse me” in what I hope is a neutral if not pleasant tone. Going into this situation, I expect my “Excuse me” to be met with an icy glare, a snort, maybe even a comment on the phonemate about the rude people in the store (me).
So what do I do? Simply stand there quietly until they notice me and/or complete their business, and clear a path? Turn around and go down another aisle? Or grab the nearest canned product and beat them over the head with it? (My choice!)
Sure, not every such person reacts rudely. But I surely believe far more react rudely than apologize for inconveniencing me in the first place. It is this apparently prevalent attitude that makes me question that rude behavior is merely “unthinking.” Instead, many factors lead me to suspect it reflects som sense of superiority or entitlement, or perhaps taking advantage of a petty opportunity in which to exercise control.
Here’s another one I’d really like to know how you would handle. Say you are walking down the street, and the person in front of you unwraps a candy and drops the wrapper on the ground. What do you do? Do you cheerily tell him, “You dropped something!” (as tho he didn’t know.) Do you say, “Don’t be a litterbug!” Or do you simply say, “Ho hum, just another person being a person!” and pick up the trash to dispose of it yourself.
I’d suggest that it is a rare person indeed who doesn’t get pissed out of proportion to some kind of societal interaction or another. What drives me crazy may roll off your back, and vice versa. For your neighbors, it is the garbage. In general I find it difficult to convince other people what they should or should not get excited about.
I’m on the side of letting petty bad behavior slide just encourages more bad behavior. I do however, agree with you totally about not letting it bother you. I’ll rant and bitch about inconsiderate losers, but 30 seconds later I forget it. Your neighbors that have been turned into shrews by garbage, put way more effort into that than I do into practically anything.
On the flip side of the coin, as someone pointed out, we all do things that annoy other people too. Nobody is perfect. If I’m constantly doing something unthinkingly that is annoying someone else, I’d like to be told about it. I’ll evaluate their complaint, and if it’s legitimate I’ll try and “do better”.
I just started reading a wonderful book on this very topic, called Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg.
He’s got a pretty impressive resume of conflict resolution, including time spent with the Israelis and Palestinians.
It’s absolutely fascinating to consider the emotional impact of our word choices and phrasings. What he says isn’t completely new or revolutionary (his advice echoes other things I’ve read) but he codifies it beautifully.
One of the things he talks about is how difficult it is to observe without evaluating, without adding value judgements. Just like Dinsdale’s example.
