Oh, and by the way, I’m a massively demonstrative public maker-outer. I hold hands, pat butts, and (shudder!) wear wedding rings and display pictures!
And there’s no fucking way I’m not going to do those things…gay or straight! If I know ya, I’ll hug ya!
Ya know, if I hear one more asshole dress up bigotry in a cloak of religion, I’m going to projectile vomit.
I really need to stop reading threads like this. I lose too much respect, for too many posters, way to fast.
I’m going to have a cup of tea.
Here’s a heartrending editorial by the mother of a gay son:
[quote]
In high school, while your children were doing what kids that age should be doing, mine labored over a suicide note, drafting and redrafting it to be sure his family knew how much he loved them. My sobbing 17-year-old tore the heart out of me as he choked out that he just couldn’t bear to continue living any longer, that he didn’t want to be gay and that he couldn’t face a life without dignity.
You have the audacity to talk about protecting families and children from the homosexual menace, while you yourselves tear apart families and drive children to despair. I don’t know why my son is gay, but I do know that God didn’t put him, and millions like him, on this Earth to give you someone to abuse. [/qupte]
not all small towns=bigoted asswipes. Is it possible for the kid to attend a different school district? Private school? Maybe even home schooling?
I’m not so sure, but it isn’t like we can get a bunch of gay-bashers to admit to a poll or analysis of their motives, so the question will likely never be definitively answered. I tend to think it stems more from insecurity and what the gay-bashers feel is a threat to their sexuality or self-image. Remember the case of Gwen Arjuho(I’m reasonably sure I butchered the name) where she was murdered after some former lovers discovered that she was transgendered? One of them reportedly said “Oh my god, does this mean I’m gay?”
Like I said, we’ll never know for sure, but some insecurity or irrational fear that they may end up being someone’s “bitch” if they assosciate with gay men seems to be a bigger driving force behind violence against homosexuals. Denial of rights, denial of gay marriage, etc, these things may be more motivated by ideology/religion, but I don’t see them motivating the more violent acts, at least not on their own.
MrVisible, as others have said, your Nephew is already way ahead in the game because his parents, the ones he lives with at least, and most of his family already accept him as he is and support him. I think even if the outside world still has problems for a while that the strength he can draw from these good influences will be of inestimable help to him. He’s already won some of the biggest battles he’ll ever have to face by coming out to his family and them accepting him and caring about how he is treated by the rest of the world.
Enjoy,
Steven
A badly scattered post, addressing things in general. With about four hours of sleep under my belt, and a massive amount of work to do, I’ll try and keep on top of this thread as best I can.
Thanks to all that posted in support. I’ll pass your kind words on to my nephew; it’ll help to know that there are people on his side.
The Good:
If he chooses the option to live with his grandmother, my boyfriend and I are a quarter mile away. We’ll be helping out as much as we can.
Otto, thanks for the advice on documenting. I do have him reading up on the resources out there; the web is going to play a vital role in helping him through this situation.
A couple of people are asking about what incident occurred, and why I’m talking around it. It will have to suffice, for now, to say that I can’t elaborate on it without making my nephew easily identifiable. And I’m not willing to take any risk at all with his safety. I apologize for not being able to be more forthcoming, but I’m sure you understand.
Thank you. I try and post positive things on a regular basis. I just found myself lying in bed last night, angry at a world that would do this to a child, and I had to write about it. I’ll post something upbeat again as soon as I can think of it.
Yep.
Yeah, it’s pretty astonishing. But thank you for your support. I’m hoping the same thing you are; that he gets through this, that he becomes a good strong person despite everything he’ll have to put up with. But it breaks my heart to think of what he’ll have to go through in the next few years, whichever path he chooses.
I’ll make sure that his family considers all these options. Thanks for the suggestion.
And now, on to the Bad and the Ugly:
No. This is your fault. Not just yours, but the fault of the millions of other people who buy into this twisted belief, who put tradition before compassion, and who spout this vile message of hatred with impunity. Every tortured teenager, every gay teen suicide, every moment a gay kid spends huddled alone and in tears, fearing the world they live in, is in small part your fault. If you feel free to blithely condemn homosexuals in public, you may as well wake up to the consequences of your actions.
It’s not the Fred Phelps of the world who make our lives miserable. It’s not the Pat Robertsons who destroy us, bit by bit. It’s you, and the people like you. And all because you’ve got some misguided delusions about the ‘proper place of sewxuality.’ The proper place of sexuality is between people who love each other. But apparently, I missed the part of the Bible where Jesus said “You should keep your neighbors from loving each other at all costs.”
Care to elaborate? Or are you just going to spout soundbites out your asshole?
Because homophobe doesn’t come close to expressing the contempt I have for these people. If you believe that being straight makes you superior to gay people, you’re a straight supremacist. It’s not tough to understand. And it gets right to the point.
Fuck you. Who else is there to blame? Whose fault is it, if it’s not the people who caused this pain?
Ironic that you should urge me to grow up, though. My nephew sure is growing up fast. He’s maturing as we speak, being dragged into adulthood by the realization that people are cruel as hell, and that they can hate people who’ve never done them harm.
You can deny your involvement all you want, but you’re in part responsible for the torment this family is going through. At least own up to it, you spineless waste.
Hate: It’s not just for Christians anymore!
What agenda?
Wow. I didn’t mean to cause such a stir. Although, in retrospect, I certainly should have expected it. I was just trying to make the point that everything involving gays isn’t based in religion.
I do have sympathy for the boy from MrVisible’s OP. Although, I am still curious as to what incident occured to cause so much grief. It seems odd that he posted around the actual issue so carefully, then was so reckless in blaming people for the boys plight.
My take on the “gay agenda” that my post referred to includes the following:
Special treatment under the law. If someone punches me in the face it’s a crime. If someone punches a gay man in the face it’s a hate crime and he will be punished more severely. I think it’s foolish to have different punishments for certain crimes just because a group of people lobby for them.
Gay marriage. I’m against the idea of gay marriage. I think marriage should be reserved for a man and a woman. I would prefer, if anything, that heterosexual marriages would have less legal ramifications to them. If gay marriages were implemented, I wouldn’t care too much, though. On a list of my top 100 issues, I don’t think this would even make the cut, since it doesn’t affect me in any way.
Special consideration and funding for AIDS. Cancer kills many more people then AIDS does, yet we spend less money fighting it. This is because there isn’t a lifestyle behind cancer, as there is with AIDS. It is because of the agenda of the people with this gay lifestyle thay my tax dollars are being disproportionately spent on a desease that is preventable.
Like I said before, I’m not religious. I don’t think homosexuality is a sin. I don’t even believe in sin. I don’t hate or dislike gay people. But, I don’t think they deserve special rights under the law or extra tax dollars spent on any deseases that disproportionately affect them.
My take on homosexuality is that it is something a certain percentage of people are born with. There isn’t anything they can do about it. There is something differently in how their brains are wired that causes an abnormality. They don’t deserve to be hated because of it. Just like those born deaf don’t deserve scorn. However, if I could choose, I would never want my child to be born gay, just like I wouldn’t want him or her to be born deaf. It doesn’t mean I would love the child less. It doesn’t mean I hate deaf people, or I hate gay people. I would just want my child to be normal.
Not true. If you attacked someone because he’s gay, the prosecution can choose to add the “hate crime” aggravated circumstance to the charge. It’s like commiting a robbery with a weapon. The weapon makes it aggravated. An assault is an assualt. But if a gay guy attacks you because you’re straight. Guess way, that also qualifies as a hate crime. If the motive is based on sexual orientation (or race, religion etc.) then it’s a hate crime, whether it’s because you’re gay or straight.
Since it doesn’t affect you in any way, then why are you against the idea? Equal rights aren’t special treatment.
Oh look, your stupidity is showing. Read and learn. Knowledge is Power.
Debaser said, "1. Special treatment under the law. If someone punches me in the face it’s a crime. If someone punches a gay man in the face it’s a hate crime and he will be punished more severely. I think it’s foolish to have different punishments for certain crimes just because a group of people lobby for them. "
Punitive damages. It goes on in many parts of American life.
“2. Gay marriage. I’m against the idea of gay marriage. I think marriage should be reserved for a man and a woman. I would prefer, if anything, that heterosexual marriages would have less legal ramifications to them. If gay marriages were implemented, I wouldn’t care too much, though. On a list of my top 100 issues, I don’t think this would even make the cut, since it doesn’t affect me in any way.”
Well, which is it? Are you for it or against it?
"3. Special consideration and funding for AIDS. Cancer kills many more people then AIDS does, yet we spend less money fighting it. This is because there isn’t a lifestyle behind cancer, as there is with AIDS. It is because of the agenda of the people with this gay lifestyle thay my tax dollars are being disproportionately spent on a desease that is preventable. "
For starters, cancer isn’t contagious. Secondly, many cancers can be prevented as well. Thirdly, there are cures for many cancers. Do we stop funding those as well?
Hate crime legislation is not a gay issue. Although I’m against punitive damages, I’m for the recognition of a new category for a previously under-reported crime. For tracking and classifying purposes, if nothing else. Hate is simply one of many reasons to kill someone–just like love, money, and sociopathy.
Whatever.
On point 3… See gobear’s article.
Calling AIDS a gay disease is simply ignorant. Its affected the gay community in a historically disproportionate way in the US, but gay people do not cause AIDS. It is not a biological weapon we decided to inflict on ourselves to get attention. The existence of AIDS is not the fault of gay people. Nor are gay people, worldwide, the majority affected. Not even statistically significant.
The Red Cross offers an explanation of why AIDS is not a gay disease. Which I learned by watching an after school special when I was 4 years old (say it with me, unprotected sex, needles, mother’s milk!). It astounds me that intelligent, educated adults don’t know something I learned from children’s programming.
Please explain why, and be aware that “because that’s how it’s always been” does not count.
But I have to agree with you on AIDS funding. I feel exactly the same way about funding for breast cancer. There are so many diseases that kill so many more men than breast cancer that it’s just not fair that so much money is spent on it!
<snort>
Otto, you are a bad, bad man.
Mr. V. - I hope your nephew is ok.
Actually, Otto, since (I’m guessing) a majority of people don’t die from any one disease, we can use inductive logic to cut off funding for all but one of them.
People are such morons. Historically, marriage was between a man and a woman of the same race. That doesn’t make it not dumb.
**
This is not used exclusively for the benefit of gay people, you know. Frankly, I think that if it was not needed, it would never have even come up.
I think that it is worth noting when someone performs a voilent or anti-social act against someone only because of some affiliation that the victim has. Because they are black, hispanic, gay, mormon, a dog owner - whatever. You know why? Because it is admitting right there that the victim didn’t do anything to deserve it. That the guy who threw a rock through Alice CatOwner’s front window just didn’t like cats, and because of that, he wanted to hurt her. That the girl who keyed Benjamin AmishFellow’s wagon had an unreasoning hatred against someone that she doesn’t even know.
Don’t you think that that is important to note in some way?
It scares me. The thought that someone could decide that they hate me because I have a girlfriend. That they could hate me, want to hurt me - or, even worse, her - because we love each other. That there are people out there who would want to see me bleed, who would do it with their own hands, never having met me before, because I happened to fall in love with someone that they don’t approve of.
Debaser, I understand that you don’t do these violent things. But it’s scary to me (and I would be very glad if it were to you, as well) that there are people out there who do do this.
Do you think that someone throwing a rock through a picture window should be punished differently if the motivation is different? …I’m not really clear what I feel about it, myself. I think that the law should be dispassionate, but I think that people who go off with so little motivation are dangerous, and perhaps they should be dealt with a bit more harshly in accordance with that.
**
You said yourself that it doesn’t affect you, why do you even care a little? Personally, I would be most happy of all if they just de-legalized the whole kit and kaboodle. I feel that it’s outdated to have the government involved at all. Of course, I feel that way about a lot of things.
**
I’m gay. I’m monogamous. AIDS research impacts me very little, from that standpoint. I am still all for it, as I am for most medical research. I know that people out there are dying, and I think that we should do the best we can to stop it.
shrug
And that’s one woman’s take on Debaser’s version of the homosexual agenda.
MrVisible:
I used to live in Omaha. There is an LBGT student group at Millard North High School there, I believe. It was in the paper. Call the Millard Public Schools (suburban district in Omaha) and see if they can give you any info on any gay student groups in their system (they have 3 high schools and 6 or 7 jr highs) and maybe contacts.
Omaha Public Schools may also have some LBGT groups registered. District 66 is an independent school district within the Omaha city limits. Try them, too. Also try Lincoln Public Schools (in Lincoln, the capital, 40 miles from Omaha). When I was growing up, Lincoln High was a very liberal high school. Very artsy, edgy. Lincoln is the college town in Nebraska, and has a quite liberal reputation relative to the rest of the state. Omaha is a metro area of close to 500,000 people, and much more sophisticated then most people realize.
Maybe some of those kids can contact your nephew, or he can contact them. Maybe they have some support resources, or at least would be willing to IM or email or call. I don’t want to know what town he’s in, of course, and he may not be anywhere near Omaha or Lincoln, but perhaps he could make friends in those cities, and maybe they’re close enough that he could go there on the weekends?
Maybe it would be worth it to see if he can transfer into one of the schools in Omaha or Lincoln?
There are right-minded people in Nebraska, I swear. A lot more than you might think. I hope this works out for the best. Let me know if I can be of any assistance.
Debaser,
Quite a few people have already asked you this, but as I want to make sure it gets a response, I’ll add my voice to the questioning chorus:
If you readily admit that gay marriage doesn’t affect you in any way, and believe that homosexuals are born that way and thus, homosexuality cannot be helped and is not a choice, how can you be against it?
Can you give any good reasons why marriage should be between a man and a woman? Any good reasons why gay people should not be able to enjoy the benefits of marriage since as you readily admit, it is not a choice?
You say you’re an atheist. The majority of people that believe marriage is between a man and a woman believe that for religious reasons. What causes you to believe this?
I sincerely don’t understand how you came to the conclusion that you have with the beliefs you have stated.
Oh no, my dear, I’m a very good man. I’m just a very bad wizard.
Many people give up their religion but forget to give up their religiously-based prejudices. I’m guessing we’ve got one of those here.
I’d like to take this time to post this copy of The Gay Agenda that I happened to pickpocket from some gay guy on the subway today.
The Gay Agenda v1.21b
[list=1]
[li]Not get the shit kicked out us.[/li][li]Not get called names or told we’re worthless/evil/abominations/etc.[/li][li]Get treated equally in all respects to all other people.[/li][li]Be happy.[/li][li]Have lots and lots of hot and sweaty man on man action.[/li][/list=1]
Those damn gays, I guess us straights will have to band together and stop this nefarious plot! :rolleyes:
Personally, I think television shows should be only for those who can hear normally, and funding for closed-captioning should be removed entirely. But the issue doesn’t affect me at all, so I don’t care that much about it.
Debaser, I’m having real trouble extracting any logic from your post about the gay agenda.
Mr Visible, I’m so sorry to hear about your nephew’s travails; being a teenager is wretched enough without having to deal with such shit. My thoughts are with him.
Daniel