I know that asking for consensus on an online message board is madness, but can most of us agree on the following two things?
#1. If the boy was killed because of a $26 pancake bill, there is nothing in the world that can justify that. Nothing.
#2. If the boy died because he was in a car that was actively attempting to run down (and maybe kill) a police officer attempting to do his duty, well then, damnit, as much of a tragedy as that may be, it’s a different story altogether and maybe the cop was justified in drawing his gun and firing?
I’ve worked in LE a bit (deputy sheriff) and the from what I’ve read in the linked articles, the officer’s story stinks. Here’s a not very well-kept secret of LE: There’s more than a few cops who have bad judgement and escalate situations beyond what the initial offense warrants. Here’s three recent incidents involving officers I know or that I witnessed first hand:
I was paired with a local police officer for traffic duty at a holiday parade. Such duty is usually about as easy as it gets. Wave the traffic around the parade route onto the detour. 3 yoots in a “monster truck”-style pickup drove past the barricade and tried to drive up the closed street. The local officer stopped them by stepping in front of the vehicle. Thankfully, the driver stomped the brakes instead of the accelerator. A very loud and angry exchange took place between the driver and the officer. None of it was necessary. If they had gone up the street, the worst that could have happened is that they’d have been stuck and forced to wait for the entire parade to pass.
Another local officer from that force was suspended and disciplined for misuse of his sidearm. He chased some kids one night for a minor traffic offense. They ditched the car (belonged to a parent) and ran into a wooded area to hide. He followed them in on foot and “just to scare them” fired several shots into the air.
A deputy was fired for escalating a minor situation while serving a warrant. What should have been routine ended up with him assaulting the man and holding a gun to the man’s head.
An officer from a local force got into a physical confrontation with a sheriff (note I am talking about The Sheriff, not a deputy) when, in direct contradiction to the judge’s orders and several directives from the sheriff to stop, he attempted to serve an arrest warrant on a defendant in the courtroom.
I’m all for giving folks the benefit of the doubt, but I’ll tell you what…If I had been that officer, I’d have taken the tags and called it in. A $26 pancake bill is worth my life or anybody else’s. The fact that the shooter wore a badge doesn’t impress me.
I apologise – I was attempting to compensate for the egregious intelligence disparity and may have overcorrected bit there. When plumbing the depths of Martin’s line of reasoning, I’m sure it is understandable that one does not want to spend any more time down there than absoluely necessary, hence the tendancy toward haste.
Guys, I don’t see him as wishing death, I think it’s more of, “Well, look at this scenario, then come back and tell me you still feel the way you do.”
As for, “you’re not a cop!”, well, that’s not the point. The point was, don’t risk injury over it. Let’s say the kids HAD tried to run down the cop. Would it have been worth it for him to risk his life over twenty-five dollars of fucking pancakes? IHOP will write it off, make up for it over time. It’s not a huge loss.
Even if we assume the DRIVER of the car tried to run over the cop it can’t justify killing a PASSENGER in the back seat. Sure cops can sometimes use deadly force to stop a fleeing felon, but the kid who died was not guilty of a felony. He was in the backseat. He had no control of the drivers actions. Cops are supposed to take into account the potential danger to bystanders. I agree we don’t have enough facts, but it sounds like a bad shooting to me at this point. Maybe it will come out that the kids were all packing uzis, but I doubt it.
He said “I hope that the next time you’re speeding on a highway, a cop flashes his lights at you, and in the split second between you trying to figure out whether he’s signaling you or not, he pulls his gun and shoots you in the back of your head and splatters your brains on the front of the windshield because you didn’t act in the right way fast enough.”
Maybe an accomplice to trying to beat a check, but how can he be an accomplice to the drivres actions, was he helping him drive? Seems like a bunch of kids ran out without paying a bill, jumped into a car and tried to drive off and some fuckwad killed one of them for it. Even if (which I doubt) the driver tried to run over the cop the kid who was shot was sitting in the backseat, without ANY evidence that he consented to, encouraged, or helped the driver he will not be an accomplice. He jumped into a car, what happened next was not in his control. Sure he shouldn’ have tried to beat the check, shouldn’t have tried to get away btu it cannot justify his death.
Okay people, I understand the frustation and anger involved here. On both sides. I happen to think that the officer went a little “Rambo” in this one, but I will withold judgement until we get more details.
I’m a little disappointed that the only remark to John Corrado is that he’s over the line. (apologize to Giraffe on review I see you acknowledged the personal aspect)
He should not have wished death on another Doper, but for Christ’s (or Og’s) sake realize the position he’s in. One of his best friends lost a family member in a violent and tragic way. How about some sympathy here?
I’m a diehard liberal and probably would never agree on many points with a conservative such as **John Corrado
**, but I’m human and understand the need for compassion and empathy. John, I wish you the best. I know it will be hard for your friend, but you also need to be there for him.
Okay people, I understand the frustation and anger involved here. On both sides. I happen to think that the officer went a little “Rambo” in this one, but I will withold judgement until we get more details.
I’m a little disappointed that the only remark to John Corrado is that he’s over the line. (apologize to Giraffe on review I see you acknowledged the personal aspect)
He should not have wished death on another Doper, but for Christ’s (or Og’s) sake realize the position he’s in. One of his best friends lost a family member in a violent and tragic way. How about some sympathy here?
I’m a diehard liberal and probably would never agree on many points with a conservative such as **John Corrado
**, but I’m human and understand the need for compassion and empathy. John, I wish you the best. I know it will be hard for your friend, but you also need to be there for him.
And now that the mod hat is off, allow me to offer my condolences to your friend for the loss of his nephew. To lose a family member over something so pointless and stupid must be awful.
I thank everyone here for their support; though, really, I don’t need a lot of it - I didn’t know Aaron really at all; I just know the uncle who loved him and praised him. And I will certainly pass your condolences on to him.
If it were a bank robbery, and one of the robbers in the back seat of the getaway car got shot and killed, I don’t think the fact that he (yes, I’m assuming it’s a he) wasn’t driving makes him a bystander.
Not that I’m defending the rent-a-cop/cop’s actions. Unless something comes out that changes the whole picture, he sounds like an asshole who turned the situation lethal when it didn’t need to be.
But I don’t think passengers qualify as bystanders when a cop considers them suspects in some other crime than driving at a cop with intent to kill.
