I’m going to restate my counterintuitive koan from above: For someone like this, helping him is not helping him. To help him, don’t help him.
Not having met you, I don’t know how truly similar our situations are. I do know that as easy as it is for me to say “Don’t cosign anything!” it’s very hard for me to stand up to my manipulative ex, even whatever he’s suggesting is ridiculous.
The unpleasantness of telling him your decision will not last anywhere near as long as the repurcusions should he default and ruin your credit.
It seems to me you’ve put effort into cultivating your own happiness and wellnes. Part of that is not having constant heartburn worrying that he will miss a payment on a loan for which you’ve cosigned. Of course it’s possible that he could change, and become a solid, fiscally responsible citizen, but over your 19 years (more?) of history together is there anything to indicate he will?
Not signing is not something you’d be doing TO him. It is something you need to do FOR yourself. It also in no way makes you an evil bitch (except possibly to him, and well, we’re just not valuing his opinion on this one).
I’m seeing things a lot more clearly lately. I want to see the best in everybody, but I see how my husband operates. He uses his anger to manipulate any situation. I’m the most non-confrontational person ever, so I can see how we got into a pattern like this
I arranged to meet with a lawyer before he asked me to cosign on his loan and I knew the lawyer will probably advise against it. So, there’s no way I will. My name isn’t on the house deed, but it is on the loan, and I made payments on that house when I lived there…9 years worth.
I’m trying to dig my way out of 19 + years of dysfunction. I continually remind myself that he’s not a good person, not really husband material for anybody and I have suffered enough.
I’m working on my self esteem…I’ve found don Miguel Ruiz’s books (The Four Agreements and others) very helpful. Oh, and my yoga practice has helped me immensely.
Thank you all… 
Because a woman who acts like a man is called a “bitch” (a woman who acts like a man sexually is called a slut). I don’t understand it, but I do know that poster Gail needs to act like an evil man.
Whoohoo! Embrace the inner evil bitch. Wear that label proudly. Because its a hell of a lot better than the alternative label: well worn and overused doormat.
When somebody shows you who they truly are, it’s your responsibility to see it.
Being positive, looking for the good in situations, looking for the good in people, living a positive life are all very good things, but they need to be done to enhance your life, not at the expense of your self-esteem or your ability to look after yourself. I read something very zen once; it was something about how to do no harm, you must not allow others to harm you, either, because the negativity of harming you ends up harming them, too.
I’m getting a little vibe from you that you have a bit of the martyr in you; you aren’t, you know. You had a useless marriage to a lump on a couch, and now it’s almost over. You’re no martyr or victim; you’re just a woman living a life, making choices like everyone else. Your choice of spouse didn’t work out, and now it’s time to move on from there. If I’m wrong about this vibe I’m getting, never mind, then.
Just in case you needed to hear it one more time… don’t cosign the loan. Just don’t.
Also, if you paid on that house for nine years, you sure as hell deserve to get your money back out of it. That’s not doing something evil to him, that’s walking away with what’s rightfully yours. I agree with the idea of community property within a marriage and don’t think of our house as “half mine” but in the event that we divorced, I would sure as hell want to retain the property I’ve worked so hard to pay for all these years. Sure it’s going to be hard on him, but he’ll need to find a way to live within his means, which is to say what he can afford on his disability payments, if that’s how he chooses to live.
I don’t in any way mean to imply that someone who lives on disability chooses to be disabled, but he certainly chose every act of disregard and disrespect which cost him his partnership with someone who helped provide financially. Had he loved you and treated you like you deserve (like anyone deserves) to be treated he wouldn’t be where he is now. Don’t feel sorry for him. Don’t screw him out of what’s rightfully his, but don’t walk away from what’s rightfully yours, either. He made his bed (or couch in front of the TV as the case may be), now he can lie in it.
Cheers to you.
Why did you ever marry him to begin with? Wasn’t he like this to begin with?
Maybe it would help to have your lawyer tell him no. I think you should consider cutting off all direct communications with your ex and let him try go through your lawyer every time he wants something from you. I promise that your lawyer will have no fear of emotional confrontations, will not feel guilty about refusing his demands and will be impervious to manipulation. You don’t need any more grief from your ex and you don’t need to deal with him directly at all. Change your phone number if you have to. He can’t manipulate you or intimidate you if he can’t talk to you. Let your attorney be your buffer. That’s what they’re for.
Why did you ever marry him to begin with? Wasn’t he like this to begin with?
OP by Operation Ripper
Oh, come on! Do I seem to be someone with a huge self esteem? I was in my late 20's when I met him and I honestly thought he was the best I could do. Red flags were everywhere, but I just went through with it.
He had a job when I met him...as a casino dealer, but he took lots of time off due to his back condition and the fact that he just plain didn't like to work.
In some ways, it must have been meant to be because I got a beautiful [daughter](http://yogi5943.zaadz.com/photos) out of this marriage....she's now 13.Oh, your daughter is gorgeous! And such cute pets!
(And your daughter is another excellent reason not to make a doormat of yourself for this guy! You want her to grow up knowing not to let someone manipulate her, right?!?!)
Don’t co-sign. That just opens you up to having to make all the payments when he decides to default.
Get a divorce, get counselling, and wash that man right out of your hair.
A kid that skis and has cats? Sounds like you’ve done a good job so far. Keep the cockatiel and dump the dodo.
In the I Ching (Chinese “Book of Changes”, Philosophy disguised as an Oracle);
Hexagram 41: Decrease, changing to Hexagram 27: The Corners of the Mouth (Nourishment)
Nine in the second place means;
Perseverance furthers.
To undertake something brings misfortune.
Without decreasing oneself,
one is able to bring increase to others.
One of the interpretations of this line is that we should not throw ourselves away (decrease ourselves) in the service of others. Doing this brings misfortune and fails to nourish both ourselves and the person we believe that we are helping.
And yet, every day there are people who demand that we diminish ourselves in their service…
That’s something that people often ask someone in a bad relationship (right up there with, “Why didn’t you leave?”), and it is a fairly useless question. Gail had her reasons for marrying him, and her reasons for staying with him, just like all people in bad relationships do. What is important is moving on from there, not assigning blame for why she made a bad choice in the first place. One thing people in bad relationships rarely need help with is feeling stupid or guilty for getting themselves into bad relationships in the first place.
That’s an interesting perspective, Chimera. A lot of women in our society give everything to their families, and have nothing left for themselves. It’s hard to convince them that looking after themselves first allows them to look after their families better.
Well hon, I don’t really know you as this is an anonymous message board, but so what, you married a fuckup, late 20s I’d say you should have known better if you are trying to make excuses, best you could do? Why then get married at all? It’s not required! Meh, have lost interest in ye at this point. You asked for him, ye got him. Of course, my advice is to you is not to sign anything, but given your apparent track record … .
Gail, you know what to do. If it helps, think of the example you want to set your daughter. Do you want her to see you as a weak quavering female who folds like a cheap lawn chair every time your soon to be ex frowns at you? Or do you want her to see you as a strong woman who stands up for what is hers and will not be manipulated?
You screwed up. But you got your baby out of it, so it wasn’t a total loss. Now, be Mama Bear, protect you and yours, and if you’re not already doing it, get some therapy. You need to figure out why you think refusing to let some toadspit excuse for a human being walk all over you makes you an evil bitch. Your mindset is all wrong, and until you fix it, you’re leaving yourself wide open to fall into the same situation with Toadspit Excuse #2 somewhere down the road.
I saw a lawyer today and she was recommended by my teacher’s union. She told me straight out that it doesn’t matter that my name is on the house title. All the courts are going to care about is if the property was acquired while we were married.
She says I’m entitled to half the value of the house. She gave me some “homework” assignments to do…like, see a realtor and find out what the house is worth.
So I’m no longer disheartened. That man has been intimidating and bullying me long enough
.
Well hon, I don’t really know you as this is an anonymous message board, but so what, you married a fuckup, late 20s I’d say you should have known better if you are trying to make excuses, best you could do? Why then get married at all? It’s not required! Meh, have lost interest in ye at this point. You asked for him, ye got him. Of course, my advice is to you is not to sign anything, but given your apparent track record … . OP by Operation Ripper
And, as for you Operation Ripper, I was surprised at the tone of your recent post. when I posted about my low self esteem, I saw that post as being light hearted…I guess I have a weird sense of humor. I didn’t expect to encounter such venom from you.
You don’t know a thing about my upbringing, what my parent’s marriage was like or any of my experiences. You only know what you would do. But, you are not me. I think the important thing here is I decided not to stay enmired in this situation
So on the off-chance that you regain interest in me and read this post. I think you went too far.
Everybody else, thank you